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Yu Jing in N4

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Well, there's warbands. I don't know why "psycho with a blunderbuss and smoke grenades" is considered so tacticool for "deniable special ops."
     
  2. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    Just beacuse you dont use it does not mean it should leave the game. Its not hurting any one being there. It only adds value to those who use it.

    I love the fluff and theme behind that rule and all of the terrain rules.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The terrain rules are horrible unbalanced and need work. They also need to get rid of the arbitrary saturation zones in some missions.
     
    csjarrat and Savnock like this.
  4. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Yeah I'd rather see them encourage the deployment of some actual pieces of terrain to represent it. Nothing is quite as weird as having a neat 12" strip of "jungle" run through the middle of a city board thanks to the ITS doc
     
    Hecaton likes this.
  5. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Well, there are, but not everyone can build an order battery with them.
     
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  6. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Line troopers are the most numerous in the army. Basic 'dumb grunt' soldiers. None of the advanced skills of a longer-serving trooper.

    I suspect that if we ever see a large-scale combat game set in the Infinity universe, more of the armies will be REMs than physical troopers.



    "Must have been some gangbanger."
     
  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Maybe, but the odds of them blowing your cover due to yolo behavior seems high.
     
  8. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    Random wishlisting for IA: an Haidao profile with E/M crazy koalas. Maybe have a new lu-duan/hulang profile with those too, kanren madtrap style.
     
    Azuset, SpectralOwl and Tibooper like this.
  9. SpectralOwl

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    Given the Hulang's looks and fluff Knife Koalas would probably be more fitting. A Perimeter Weapon that just runs at people and stabs them until it gets shot down, and if it actually scores a kill it sticks around for more shanking fun times.
     
  10. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    A G: Sync knife bot with stealth? That would be pretty cool
     
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  11. Tibooper

    Tibooper Well-Known Member

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    Basically, Flippy in Happy Tree Friends ? (but robot version)

    YJ_Flippy.png
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    With the number of cameras/satellites and other intelligence tools it seems like the Black Ops in Infinity are less about not getting noticed and more about being a deniable op. "Wasn't us must have been Steve over there pretending to be us!"
     
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The game's weird fixation on psychos with blunderbusses and smoke grenades seems so anti-tactical though.
     
    Azuset likes this.
  14. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    I like it in some cases, the idea that a team trying to steal something out of a module on Bakunin might run into a bunch of meth heads that the Moderators have rounded up and released from holding on the attackers seems pretty on point to me. But I can definitely see where the idea that the Ariadne Expeditionary Forces haul around a bunch of Claymore wielding psychos just to provide smoke support seems alittle sketchy.
     
  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The issue is that smoke and direct template weapons are extraordinarily powerful in game; every military should be using them extensively. And yet they're mostly found on these weird psychos that hang around the military units thinking its an action movie and not some sort of actual planned operation.
     
  16. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the idea was to blame the op on some gangbangers.

    But yes, I'm really surprised how few grenades are in use in Infinity. Every basic infantryman should be carrying some frag grenades, and possibly a couple smokes. Depends on how big said grenades are assumed to be.
     
  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Considering that Infinity's smoke grenades are near-instant anime ninja smoke bombs that perfectly conceal things from normal vision, yeah, everybody should have a couple.
     
  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Admittedly, "everyone carrying a couple" implies some potentially-ugly bookkeeping.

    Having grenades (of whatever type) limited to a small number of profiles where each one is carrying enough for the entire battle may be the simpler solution. I wouldn't want to deal with every trooper carrying an unlimited number of smoke grenades. "Ariadna Vaping Convention"
     
  19. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    That was one of my "What if" questions. What if grenades were disposable 2-3?
     
  20. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    This thread is officially too long to read (I was distracted by Asteroid Blues) and seems to have diluted from reasoned suggestions about N4 to one line comment trading a little, so I'll run off my long N4 wishlist here. Apologies for what I duplicate / echo from way earlier in the thread.

    General / Game Improvements

    • It would be nice to see a lot of game streamlining and editing. We've accrued a lot of overlapping gear, rules and states that appear to do roughly the same thing. Infinity should always be a complex gentleman's game where all kinds of tactical options are open, but as with the best rules like hidden information, order declaration and face to face rolls the best complexity comes out of solid understanding of well stated rules. It shouldn't come out of forcing new players to memorise three phone books worth of rules and units and people exploiting micro interactions with civ syncing or aro forcing etc!
    • I'd like to see ARO forcing removed as a mechanic. Smoke & MSV2 are too powerful because you can force reset & change facing a variety of ways. (For a Yu Jing example, the hsien HMG is always a better unit than the multirifle, because if you're in smoke you never have to take a face to face shooting roll unless your opponent has SSLV2 - you're generally shooting into a change facing inside the hmgs bad range band of 8", so there's no risk and you may as well have extra burst and damage! I've commented on this before, but I think you should be able to declare delay against models activating inside smoke clouds or outside LoF and inside ZoC... this would fix most ARO forcing issues.
    • CC should be improved. It should be possible to stealthily stab someone in the back and at least grant surprise attack if you have martial arts. Yu Jing shouldn't pay points for the cc stat buff on their units as it's rarely used and *way* less valuable than the equivalent BS buff (two reasons - you have to close distance for cc, and cc has no extra burst in active turn... shooting a combi gives 3 dice for a model to exploit a better BS stat, versus a single dice for using an extra point of CC which just comes down to a gamble). It should also be possible to engage and swing for damage in the reactive turn... I still have sad flashbacks from my first training game with a ninja where I tried to jump out and surprise attack somebody and got punched to death.
    • Hackable should be a discount worked into HI status, especially now units like Yadus somehow seem to be HI with no drawbacks but cheaper.
    • Fireteam composition has got insanely complicated, to the point where people accidentally took illegal fireteams to the top tables in Interplanetario this year without knowing they were making a mistake AND none of their opponents knew their list options well enough to spot it. Flatly - nobody can remember all the fireteam options for all the armies and they shouldn't have to. This needs a lot of simplification, and maybe drop the more esoteric triad/enomatarchos/haris nomenclature.
    • Maybe tone down isolated, e/m and glue damage versus HI and tags? IMM-2 is pretty final if there are no engineers on the field. The number of zappers, e-marats and jammers out there seems to be nuts right now.

    ISS improvements

    • The pheasant should be reworked. All the pheasant profiles should have Chain of Command. All cc skills should be cheap or free on this profile - if you really want to CC your chain of command and move it upfield, that's your LoL funeral. It would be nice to have the hacker and sniper have CoC, as they're the only profiles who don't seem designed to charge up the field for some reason.
    • The Bao Troop has so much potential and looks great. Just doesn't quite cut it. Tiny tweaks like wildcard could make it work, or a major profile rework. (I'd love to take a Bao in my Kuang Shi fireteam.... heh)
    • A hsien and/or crane FTO would be really fun. I'm jealous of the Aquila FTO wildcard in NCA.
    • A Zhanying wildcard would be fun.
    • It would be nice for the Su Jian to score in TAG focussed missions. We don't need a tag, we just need to count putting robo-cat in the right place.
    • Sun Tze V2 could use some love, or maybe a little discount.
    • Kanren could be improved to make including them in lists less irritating. Holoprojector doesn't give them much defense as a midfield infiltrator and they're too specialised - could we please just have one profile that offers some midfield control and madtraps as well as specialist status? Maybe sniffer minelayer and madtraps as standard equipment, then a choice of specialist options. Though I love throwing cybermask on and monofilamenting a tag as much as the next guy, including a 30 point model with no true token state that is only situationally useful is a bit of a big ask in a lot of my lists.
    IA improvements
    • Shang Ji could use a rework and a new model would be incredible. Maybe make all the profiles have tactical awareness on the Shang Ji or make them all NCO, so IA have many more options than Tai Sheng for leading fireteams efficiently.
    • Krit and the haidao engineer could use rules so that they're resistant to IMM-2 results somehow. It's *really* sad if you build an engineer into your zuyong link and then an e-marat or zapper hits the whole link (which is your whole army if you've gone that way).
    • The Haidao could use BTS 3 at least. This really makes the zapper scenario above *more* likely to immobilise the engineer than the rest of the zuyong, which is a real kick in the plums. Or don't the state-empire navy seal their space suits?
    • It would be fun to add forward deployment L1 to the Hac Tao BSG and Multirifle profiles? This would make them a little more order efficient to be the TO profile that gets up close and personal vs their nemesis the Swiss Guard that is the god of surprise missiles (we're already jealous of the light shotgun on the swiss missile launcher... with TO camo that beats a nanopulser any day).