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Yu Jing in N4

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Remember that this fluff is actually in comparison to the older Invincible armor. For those that started in N3, basically Wu Ming with Cubes, but without the super-optimized profiles.

    So we're talking about armor superior to Wu Ming gear, not Zuyong.
     
  2. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    Well then. Let me think about this.
     
  3. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    [​IMG]
     
  4. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    My Hulang Changes

    "All of them were intensely trained in martial arts, urban combat, and close quarters battle, in addition to tunnel warfare, focusing on assault tactics, as well as shock and awe techniques. In this way, Captain Hu Zheng's battalion specialized in overwhelming assaults, often at night, on enemy lines and positions without ever taking prisoners, and forging a fearsome reputation in the process. The men of this unit fight like Warriors from Antiquity, terrorizing the enemy with the edge of their swords, favoring hand-to-hand combat, and getting close enough to their opponents to see the whites of their eyes as they overtake them, as unstoppable as they are unrelenting."

    From this description the Hulangs primary focus is Hand to hand combat. Next it prefers close range combat. They are meant to be a unit that charges into the front line and smash it up. To me this is reflected in the "the men of this unit fight like Warriors from Antiquity".

    The thing that makes this profile undesirable is that it's not supported well by the rest of IA and it is vulnerable to being attacked easily in the 1st turn. 41-44pts is a hard gamble on a kamikaze melee unit that is just going to try to take out a few pieces and die on IA's first turn.

    Originally I liked the idea of Limited camo. After giving it some more thought and research I really don't think that would fit the lore. It would make them more durable though. Having that said I would really like to see this unit have Hyper-dynamic's level 2 and Sixth Sense level 2.

    This would make it slightly more durable for surviving the 1st turn if IA goes second. This would also help the unit get into melee range easier by dodging better.

    I'm not sure about the points cost of that. I would really hate to see a FDL2 specialist leave the army but that is what I would remove from the profile to compensate.

    This really is a throw away unit so V: dogged might have a case to be on this profile instead of Shock Immunity and NWI.

    To recap here are my proposed changes.

    Bare minimum:

    1. Add Hyper Dynamics L2
    2. Add Sixth Sense L2


    Next on my list:
    • Add climbing plus (if there is room for it in the cost.)
    • Remove Specialist (if needed to bring the cost down.)

    Worth a chat about:
    • V:Dogged could be debatable.


    I feel like these changes would stay true to the lore and give Hulangs the mobility and suitability they need to get into close combat by charging the front line of the enemy.

    Will these changes be worth playing him?
     
    #244 Azuset, Aug 16, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  5. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    All these fluff pieces about criminals, troublemakers and people with 0 discipline forming freaking military units never fail to be utterly hilarious.
     
    Berjiz, WiT?, Dragonstriker and 3 others like this.
  6. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    Here are my, Pheasant changes.

    "The Pheasant Agents live and work in low intensity hostile environments. They carry out anti-insurgency tasks, providing help and advice to local forces in all aspects of combat operations, as well as participating actively in them. They plan and direct training, Direct Action, intelligence and psychological operations in addition to internal defense missions and joint civil-military actions. They give advice to officers in all matters related to the preparation and execution of strategy and contingency plans. The Pheasant Agents are also elite special operatives, with superb combat training. They usually join assault units as observers to evaluate the effectiveness of new techniques and tactics. But it’s also common for them to end up using their authority to assume command and combat roles. Their presence is electrifying for military and police forces, who know that the Pheasants only appear when blood can be smelled. "

    Based on this piece of lore I would not change a whole lot. Granted I don't have much tabletop exigence on with these guys. I pretty sure most people would say the CC22 with MAL2 is a huge waist of points. Would you take this away form the unit?

    I think the weapons load outs are okay. This give Yu Ching access to Stun Grenades, MadTraps, and E/Mitters. I really like the X Visor's on these guys. So in that regard they appear to be adding value even though it's got shit stats BS 12 and PH 10. I really think this was designed to be mediocre fighters but give the army some sub optimal weapon options.

    I can't speak about the trooper as a whole but I would recommend is removing Kinematika L1 and giving this Unit Counter Intelligences. That and any good ideas the rest of the community has.

    Recap.

    Bare minimum.

    • Add Counter Intelligence
    • Remove Kinematika L1
     
  7. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Kinematica 1 is pretty much a free skill, so no real reason to take it away.

    Biggest boost to Pheasants is let them join more FTs, and shave about 5 points off the cost. Adjusting troopers by using current pricing metrics doesn't really mean much going into a new edition.
     
    Hecaton likes this.
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Honestly they just need to price everything holistically from now on.
     
  9. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Yeah, formulas are good for a first pass but will never be able to take into account every synergy and anti-synergy.
     
    Hecaton likes this.
  10. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    One of the main drawbacks of the Pheasant profile is the low PH. It originated from the older profiles, back when they swing a monofilament weapon that never came to use. Now he a martial artist L2 who is hitting like a grandma. And he looses dodging competition even to a warcore - read: He has a PH like a line trooper. The profiles without CoC are so niche, that rarley someone will take them. He needs an O-12 point threadment.
     
  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    They can, actually, but you need someone who really knows math and statistics to create the formula.

    For example, Star Fleet Battles points formula includes range as a variable, and certain ships costs will increase more than 30% over the 'Base Points Value' if you get them close enough to use those point-defense phases offensively.

    I'm quite certain nobody at CB has the requisite math skills. I'm equally certain I don't, either!
     
  12. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    I still firmly believe you can't save the hulang without changing the whole sectorial, but if I really had to change the guy himself I'd probably give him frenzy, to align his cost with the zhencha and liu xing (mid-high 30s), and veteran L1, to give him a niche as a jammer/hacker hunter. Yeah I know he already has a niche as the buldozer/big game hunter of IA, but that's way too specific, the fucker also needs to pull his weight in the missions which doesn't involve storming an objective room, slashing mechas in half or bashing a defenseless antenna with D-charges.

    Also I'd consider giving a DTW to all profiles, maybe a nanopulser or a chain colt for the dual SMG one.
     
    #252 Sedral, Aug 17, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
    Section9 likes this.
  13. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    How is he a big game hunter?
     
  14. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Because Monofilament does not care how much ARM / STR / W you have :)
     
    #254 Knauf, Aug 17, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  15. Kaiserburger

    Kaiserburger Member

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    Ok, after not reading 13 pages of thread, I just need to add this, hoping that CB reads it:
    • ISS should be more "Imperial Service", since it's in the name, and less "Bounty Hunter and Aleph" service. I'd like to see more mixed Imperial Agents, Guards, Bao mix-ups in link teams. Leave mercenaries to Qapu Khalqi or NA2, I need to field my Chinese cops and a whole hierarchy of Inquisit---ehm judges and agents;
    • as a Skorne player in Warmahordes, I feel like IA suffers a lot from the former phenomenon commonly known as Skornergy, when I'm building lists. Each time I feel I pack a punch, I don't have spare points for good specialists or medics/engineers, while in other Sectorials, and viceversa. There are a lot of non-sense (Krit Kokram) or outdated Profiles (Shang Ji, Yan Huo, Guijia), and poor choices (Dashat can link a Rui Shi, which is a YJ REM?). There has been a lot of talk about this already so I don't want to complain. I still play this sectorial since it consists of my favorite models, I'm just not happy playing it and feel that I should just spam ugly REMs instead of bad*** heavy soldiers;
    That's it about YJ, I'd love to see some improvements to ruleset though, so fingers crossed!
     
  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    And, similar to Skorne, YJ clearly lacks an advocate on the design team to give them a sectorial as powerfully designed as the two that made this year's Interplanetario finals.
     
    Benkei likes this.
  17. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    The feeling I'm getting more and more is that CB just doesn't care about Yu Jing and, to a lesser extent, Haqqislam. It's like they can't be arsed to come up with anything new that opens Yu Jing gameplay a little, even with all that "design space" that was supposedly needed and that was used to justify us losing a third of our models just because.

    For me the half assed attempt of a Sectorial that IA is (probably the most anticipated Sectorial for YJ players) is the nail in the coffin after the Uprising fiasco. I'll play Aleph now so I can get cool things instead of the 47355337th overcosted hackable stupid HI who gets AROd to death like a bitch (or hacked, or jammered, etc...)
     
  18. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    And related to this: with all the cool shit eastern cultures provide, how come CB hasn't taken advantage of any of that? One would wonder they think eastern people consist only of Japanese samurai and ninja, and fuck all the rest of them, they don't even have cool martial arts because Japanese invented everything!!! It says it right here on my anime DVDs!!!
     
  19. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha. Awesome.
     
  20. Henshini

    Henshini Well-Known Member

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    I was honestly surprised there wasn't one political officer/inperial agent in IA. I'd like that too.