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Yu Jing Fluff - Perception, Reality, Desire

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Devrailis, Mar 28, 2018.

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  1. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    No, it states that the first deployments began on Earth on 4th October, with earlier deployments on Paradiso on 3rd October providing a blueprint, and that the Steel Wall "closed with international approval" on 24th October. It's perfectly reasonable to see that as the first roll outs early October with full implementation on 24th October (25th October on other fronts), and a lack of full implementation on Svalarheima owing to the Fimbruls and other storms.
     
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  2. Shiwen

    Shiwen Commissar, Yu Jing General Political Department

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    I (or at least the 'me' trying my best to salvage something out of this) don't see it that way, it isn't a sunk cost, doubling-down, so much as a state which believed that there was a system of laws, and that competition took place within that system of laws, now being faced with undeniable evidence that no one else gives a muck about those laws.

    The core point there is that this isn't going to alienate anyone inherently, isn't going to help CA, because everyone has already been doing this crap and Yu Jing is just now arriving, late to the party of fuck-O12s-rules. Sure, you can have thirty thousand 'exposes' on Maya about how Yu Jing is evil, and that absolutely does divide humanity and give the CA an opening. But lets say, at this moment, there is no Shield Division, YJ allows complete anarchist freedom to all Japanese on Kuraimori and they vote to secede and join NA2 Japan, what is the difference?

    There isn't one. There are still thirty thousand exposes on Maya about the evils of Yu Jing.

    That situation is the reality, entirely independent of the actions of the StateEmpire. That is bad, to be sure, but that doesn't matter to Yu Jing. Yu Jing can't control that, can't stop it, that has been definitively proven by Uprising. Whoever CAN control that (patently undeniably Aleph according to the setting, but Uprising requires Aleph to not be what it is as written so maybe there'll be something else to hold responsible) is the one dooming the Human Sphere. The 'sunk cost' here isn't a fallacy, it is a truth that Yu Jing will be vilified and have its rights violated whether it acts according to the law or says fuck it and does what it wants. Doing the latter, if it gains an advantage, is entirely a win, the negative consequences for Yu Jing and for humanity as a whole are zero since they'll occur regardless.

    You're talking timing, but not really supporting a counterargument. What you actually need to be doing here, if you're wanting to argue that PanO had O-12 authorization from the start, is explaining why 'international approval' is explicitly cited on the 24th, but not mentioned at all prior.
     
  3. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I believe it is also deployed on Dawn against the Ariadna's protests.

    Anyway, I fail to see the initial deployments of PanO as approved by O-12, taking 20 days to get international support (be it in whatever form or shape). And most of the things shown point that PanO has supported a terrorist uprising who started by hunting and killing off-duty police officers...

    Seriously, this would not fly on any civilized world.
     
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  4. Dude

    Dude Lazy Bushi
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    Yu Jing undoubtedly sees the human sphere this way. You are presenting YJ's perspective with great care and accuracy. They are surrounded by dishonorable opportunistic scum who seek only to undermine their authority and usurp their power.

    To the rest of the sphere, PanO supported a fledgeling rebel state struggling to break free of Imperial brutality. Tatenokai actions would be unreported, glossed over, and disassociated from the Kempeitai and Japanese command. If they had to, these assassinations would be publicly justified as retaliation against oppression and injustice.

    You need to see and appreciate these perspectives to understand how and why uprising played out the way it did.

    ***

    Side comment, I want to note that I completely understand and agree with with criticisms that Yu Jing lost too much to be given nothing in return. I wanted CB to include some compensation to YJ to show that they do care about this impact Uprising will have. The new closed battle lists are a step in the right direction but don't make up for the losses incurred by Uprising.
     
  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I do, that's why I keep saying "CA is coming, and wants to shake hands with YJ, the only clear honorable and just human state". And why I fear that happening, since only plot armor would prevent a game over, aliens win.

    The only thing that can prevent this is exposing as CA agents a lot of people, and you can do that only once. While I'm sure the use of such "get out of the pit of plots" card needs to be used, it is a card that gets to be played ONCE.

    And sure, JSA reuniting with YJ is not possible even if playing that card, regardless of how hard the Japanese would have been played by the CA.
     
  6. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Or PanO supported the desire of a brutally oppressed, repressed and downtrodden people, used as cannon fodder or worse by their conquerors, to free themselves... it's as Obi Wan said.
     
    #1246 A Mão Esquerda, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
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  7. Danger Rose

    Danger Rose Sand Cats Tactical Security LLC

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    I just find it funny and interesting that players who have no problem with a Faction that fields Kwang-Shi (with a fluff that spares no punches in telling us that they are Brainwashed to begin with, and rules that treat them as Crazy Koalas) all of a sudden find this same regime's SAME disregard for human life on a grander scale offensive.
     
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  8. Aldo

    Aldo Trying to detox from being a lorefag

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    So does keeping the entire fluff in one person's hands.

    What happens when Gutier dies, or goes senile, or says "fuck this I'm gonna work for Ubisoft"?

    "He was the best starfighter pilot in the galaxy, and he was a good friend"?

    "You were meant to destroy them, not join them"?

    "This is going to be easy"?

    "Did you press the stop button?"?

    "Sith lords are our speciality"?

    He said a lot of things, which one is it?

    Wait, I think I found it.

    "How did this happen?! We're smarter than this!"

    That's every Yanjing and ISS agent during Day 1 of the insurrection.

    Edit: was it "I have the high ground!"?

    He has too many great quotes.
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I think you'll find most people complaining don't mind being of the evil alignment, they are complaining about being specifically Stupid Evil.
     
  10. Kallas

    Kallas Vincible

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    The difference is that Kuang Shi are not Yu Jing.

    The ISS is the brutal arm of law enforcement, brought about because of, among other reasons, the terrifyingly organised crime of the Triads (eg, killing officials outside courthouses and otherwise exercising great power with great detriment to both state and citizens). They utilise excessive force when necessary to bring about a swift conclusion, particularly when facing dangerous, secretive armed groups that would otherwise uproot the stability of the nation.

    Kuang Shi are a part of that, they are an extreme response to extreme resistance. Kuang Shi certainly are abhorrent, but they are not indicative of Yu Jing as a nation, ad a whole. It's like saying that the US is awful because of waterboarding at Guantanamo Bay; it's simply not representative of the nation as a whole.

    The Invincible Army, as a comparison, are much more like the US Army. They will have their own rules of engagement and are more than likely good citizens and people, simply protecting Yu Jing (and the Sphere, in general, on Paradiso) from aggression.
     
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  11. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    Finally read through the book, I didn't mind it so much, but I think one thing that would have helped address the slight YJ players feel if multiple factions didn't appear to get away so squeaky clean from the Uprising, they obviously didn't with the NA2 encroaching on the power blocs of the galaxy, but it would have helped! As well as an after-report of how YJ is dealing with this after the fact, but the book doesn't go that far ahead. E: @Phlyk and I have been chatting about it and things like PanOceania getting sanctions for selling arms to a rebellion, small details but help in the bigger picture.
    Basically this.
     
  12. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The rest of the context about the Steel Wall, though, is that if O-12 authorized it and expected Yu Jing to just take it lying down, then Yu Jing honestly probably *should* join the CA - O-12 thinks that their sovereignty and lives are worth less than that of the new Japanese State or PanO. If the UN authorized China to march troops into Spain or wherever, why should Spain be cool with that once it's over?
     
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  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Why? Everyone knows that YJ are the evil oppressors. Even YJ will acknowledge this once it's all over and hang their head at their own bigotry, nodding when the Japanese state is given even more of their territory as a concession... /s

    On a serious note, the idea that PanO and O-12 didn't risk mutually assured destruction by doing what they did is ludicrous. Everyone's dancing around that idea, but honestly everyone should be rushing to reassure YJ that now is *not* the time to toss nukes around, complete with political and economic concessions and so on. Instead Gutier wrote things like everyone is sitting around talking about what bastards YJ are *after* they've invaded their territory. Why Yu Jing isn't going on the attack to make sure that nobody ever, ever does that again is a mystery...
     
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  14. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    That is covered in the fluff itself, they can't deal with conflict on that many fronts, it stretches the StateEmpire Army too thin. Between Paradiso, the Uprising and something else? (I've forgotten already and don't have my book handy) what can they realistically achieve?
     
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  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Ah yes, the nation who joined Yu Jing to save themselves from economic ruin... and who then violently left without paying their tab.
     
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  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Pull out of Paradiso. If O-12 doesn't think Yu Jing deserves sovereignty, they can fight their own battles vs. CA.
     
  17. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    Man these Speculos are becoming really easy to spot.
     
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  18. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    Speculo Forum Bots.
     
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  19. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    and this is what didn't happen, there you go. :)
     
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  20. Kallas

    Kallas Vincible

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    ...yet
     
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