Yu Jing Fluff - Perception, Reality, Desire

Well, we really haven't had such anger before on the forums. The closes thing I can remember is people being upset about how long it took the N3 books to come out. But that never degenerated into shitposting and mocking CB.

As I've said, troll posting here isn't going to affect CB. Its only going to annoy Yu Jing fans, especially newer ones that got interested in the faction because of the new interesting conflict to roleplay.

 

I really buy into what CB are saying lately about a changing game. It really enthuses me, I get excited.

Yeah it sucks when you're the one getting affected, but just like Crits it'll come in swings and roundabouts. We're down now but yu Jing will be resurgent!

To quote sean from the very good remote presence+lhost episode about psychology

"embrace the chaos"

 

There are people who will dismiss any criticism as trolling though. It's too cult like.

 

Don't lump in shitposting making crappy memes is an excellent way to vent. I've done nothing toxic here if anything I've redirected a lot of frustrated people to joking in-character. Thanks for being the voice of reason but everyone already agrees with you and othering anyone who doesn't won't resolve anything.

 

Genuine question, which part of it inspired you?

 

As I wrote before, it really reads like Yu Jing got screwed by the Media on Maya net and that Yu Jing could have won if Pano didn't put up that steel wall. Plus, the conflicts not over. Not by a long shot. If Yu Jing can't take back the JSA territory they can make them pay for the humiliation of defeat.

And honestly I don't mind the ISS doing terrible things. They use prisoners as human bombs, that they could commit atrocities isn't shocking. Also, with how much the Kemptai attacked the ISS, I'm not shocked by the violent actions pf the ISS.

Besides, I play Combine Army and will probably pick up the two merc factions. I don't mind playing a faction that does terrible things. I just don't agree that uprising is a one sided negative portrayal of Yu Jing. Its a ruthless faction but its written as stupid evil as some keep trying to claim.

Other players disagreeing with how terrible everything in uprising is isnt cult like. It just means theres a lot of players that disagree with you.

 

You have my attention.

Unfortunately we have a [trump]many sides[/trump] situation, and while these two sides of... less than stellar... conduct seem to be incapable of actually being kerosene to the other's fire, I'd say each person's particular sympathies dictate which side is more grating. Neither are actually going to make the situation better.

As for your edit, most artists don't actually stand much to gain from critiquing their fellow writers' or artists' work. Some try (Terry Goodkind, you dork), but in general the only ones to actually gain much from critiquing their work are critics who sell such critique as a product to their respective readers. I'd go so far as to say that while everyone is a critic, critiquing is a skill that's distinct from being an artist or being a consumer, because it doesn't involve producing work so much as picking someone else' work apart and presenting it to the consumer (or in some cases the artist ahead of publishing), preferably without spoiling the piece of work.
While I admit that I'm not much of a critic, I can still present my opinion as a consumer and others can present theirs. What should bother CB in this case is the growing sentiment that Uprising hasn't offered consistent quality with their previous work - and while this is not something that a professional critic is expressing (not that I've ever heard of any professional critic work their hands on wargaming fluff), it's still a very important data point.
As for good storytelling, is there even such a thing? What people looking at meta-critic or similar score aggregations miss is that critique is subjective and as such good storytelling is subjective. There are some formulas for how to build a good story, it has more to do with over-arching pacing than actually making the story (which makes sense that there are formulas for pacing, given that we're dealing with human psyche). I don't think good storytelling even applies to this debate, this is focused almost entirely on content and the promotion surrounding it.

 

But the writing has ALWAYS readt as fan fiction. That's why i don't understand people fanboying Gutier so hard.

 

Exactly! It's like the base material is good, but the execution... Not so much.

 

Then PanO and YJ were at undeclared war for 20 days, and if O-12 does not impose penalties to PanO, then interstellar politics fail.

While I agree this is the most likely objective explanation, there is so many times this can be used without simply saying "that is, CA wins, now humanity either is united under the CA banner or guerrilla wars start, suddenly some hackers develop telekinetic powers and mind control, with blades of plasma. We call this "the rebellion", welcome to a New Hope!"

As a consumer I have all the right in the world to ask to the company I am buying stuff from to give a reasonable explanation for its product falling real short from the expectations provided.

For their own good, you see. It's either that or not giving a rat's ass about it, and stop being a customer (because I already stopped advertising Infinity, incidentally).

Hello, deaf poster. I bet you won't read this, since you obviously did not read the ton of previous posts regarding Uprising in this thread (which was dying down for the past days, until more data of the book became available). The problem we, be it players of YJ or not (fun fact: I play Aleph, Combined Army, Nomads or Haqquislam), have with Uprising is not that the lore advances or that JSA turns into an independent faction, that is the company's decision and, while some protests were made (specially right was the one about the Shikami), the problem is the HOW has this been handled, presented, and finally sold.

In essence, most of us are not as angry as we are disappointed. And fearful that the future of Infinity will be that of "anything to sell more models, fluff and game balance be dammed!", since that is not what we want from a game.

 

And notice how the actually tiny minority suddenly very concerned about toxic negativity (and really, wow, they think the very mild place this thread is at right now is harmfully negative? Really. No they don't.) ... includes (if not is dominated by in terms of "concern trolling" post count) the minority of fanatical CB defenders that have been fanatical defenders at any and all costs with any and all excuses already? I mean seriously, I've seen Death's posts on this thread and Death has no standing to declare that other posters are saying naughty things bad for the community.

Also hey, I have a story about being excited about the JSA release too.

I was very excited to see the new JSA box.

So excited I ordered it immediately.

Despite being somewhat out of touch with the arcane secrets of the forum community at the time.

So excited I decided to go to the forums and check out what was going on, what with the new forums setting in and the exciting new release making me excited for the game.

This lead to the immediate discovery of the JSA split.

THAT KILLED MY ENTHUSIASM IMMEDIATELY AND MADE ME FEEL LIKE THE VICTIM OF A BAIT AND SWITCH.

I have a couple of factions. Yu JIng was arguable the second most interesting one I had. But sadly one I had relatively few models for. The JSA box looked like a great deal that would massively increase the diversity of my options for Yu Jing lists. In one purchase I would have comparable selection of potential lists as I have with other factions I collected up to that point.

But thanks to "SURPRISE SPLIT! YOU LOVE IT RITE! IT HAS GENOCIDE & WAR CRIMES TOO! FOR BOTH SIDES! EVERYONE LOVES THAT!" not only have both my Yu Jing models and my JSA models got icky genocide all over them I also ended up spending a bunch of money that WON'T improve my available selections for Yu Jing lists at all in fact my available selections have SHRUNK. Sure I can field a JSA force... also of incredibly limited selections. The inability to mix the two massively devalues them both I went from nearly having a single faction collection of very diverse options to instead having TWO factions of deeply limited and to me insufficient options.

Through no fault of my own and with no warning basically because someone who, sorry, it isn't being unnecessarily mean to say this, makes some deeply bad "narrative" choices, decided to pull a bait and switch on my purchase.

There is no "Buuuut now there is reason for conflict! That's exciting right?" excuse that in any way is an equal equivalent to THAT experience of the new JSA. We had reasons for conflict. We did not need more reasons for conflict. If anything the JSA and Yu Jing could have used more and better reasons to work together instead. And even so there is no reason in the world why THESE had to be the new reasons for conflict even if you wanted more.

And anyone telling me the JSA split is wonderful and we should all clap hands and buy more Infinity stuff and engage in campaigns more and reward CB with not just money but also inordinate degrees of grovelling worshipful respect in their forums. THEY are the toxic force at work here because it sure as heck is toxifying my experience of both the community, the game, and the product.

 

I do not view insulting CB and the people working there as criticism.

 

For me it went in a similar fashion. I was very excited when I heard of the new JSA release and got back into the game and the new forums.
I pre-ordered the JSA Starter and the new Book at a local store and over the course of the follwoing days/weeks realized, that the miniatures really weren't my thing after all, so I canceled the pre-order.

It's really not a problem to opt out of a future purchase if the product turns out to be not what you expected. I don't see how CB "pulled" anything on you, it's just that thge product is not to your liking, while others will probably enjoy it.

Ascribing malicious intent where there clearly is none, doesn't make for a good point.

 

Really because the "unpleasant negativity" people seemed "concerned" about looks to me like at worst, people calling someone a bad writer. And not in particularly graphic terms.

If you are saying we can't call someone a bad writer then we also cannot call his writing bad.

That's how criticism works, if someone produces something bad or stupid then by direct implication of the criticism at least to some limited degree, at least temporarily then the person who produced the bad or stupid product was stupid or bad at producing that product.

If the very mild "this guy is bad at writing both at a technical level and in the broader strokes of decision making" I've seen being, barely, aired is viewed as a forbidden and personal insult then that means you are DIRECTLY banning criticism and in VERY broad terms to boot.

Similarly I feel this decision by CB has hurt me as a consumer in the form of a minor bait and switch scam. By direct implication that DOES mean that by the implications of my stated experience at least someone at CB made a decision that was, either a recklessly stupid one, or an intentional bait and switch. By the broad terms you are flirting with in a reckless manner I for instance couldn't even complain about a bad consumer experience because you would feel it loosely insults someone.

Is that what you are saying? Because that's what it looks like you are saying.

 

I'm not burning good will with my local distributor by demanding a refund of money they thought they rightfully earned for reasons outside of their direct control.

I however might find my future purchases effected.

Even though I have not consciously decided on a long term boycott of CB, I have refrained from a purchase I was considering once already and I have found myself looking at other competing products from my local distributor.

 

I think you need to reread the thread(s), because it is not mild at all.

There are several ways to address an issue and provide both criticism and feedback, the ones I have seen are mostly of the bad to extremely bad variety.

Been a consumer of a product does not grand you any right in insulting companies or people.

 

All of which is perfectly fine - that's how the free market regulates itself.

What is not, however, is claiming that CB tricked you into buying a product under false pretense. It is your responsibility to inform yourself about the product and it was made very clear that the split was happening. I mean, the book isn't called "Uprising" for no reason.

 

Hello upset person. I realise you are upset.

I don't like you're suggestions as to how CB could have done this better.

Regards,

Someone with a different opinion to you

 

I was on the forums when the first data from the book was shared by Yasashii Fuyu, and since it was during the Pre-Order time I was in time to cancel my reserve with a clean conscience.
Frankly, regardless of the quality, I would be hard pressed to justify to myself spending 40 bucks into a book with a quarter of which I already read, and half of which is exclusively aimed at JSA players... leaving me about 30 pages for the merc companies.

As for the JSA box, I considered buying it... and selling everything but the Section 9 & Drrrrr!!! Expies, then I realized nobody would want the pieces I did not.

Just bored of telling people that no, the split was not bad in itself, our gripe is on another place.

I don't think we will ever agree on anything if you defend in any way the publication of the endorsement of mass graves for fun and profit on Facebook. Have a nice day.

 

Please show me where CB has been insulted, o absolutely neutral and unbiased moderator o' mine. Like, with quotes of insults, and preferibly from several different people so we can all be aware of this "dangerous toxicity" that it's supposedly running rampant and that it seems to me it's how CB's white knights say "but, you can't criticize anything CB does for it is the gospel of God!!!"


P.S: "xxxxx's writing is bad" is not an insult, just FYI