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Yu Jing Fluff - Perception, Reality, Desire

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Devrailis, Mar 28, 2018.

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  1. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Damn, that's a really good point.
     
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  2. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Something along these lines:

    ...The Imperial Agent sneered out the question, but Akihiko simply stepped aside in lieu of a response.

    The agents eyes slid down to the corpses of two Kempeitai resting within pools of their own blood.

    Akihiko opened the door the rest of the way, and folded his hands in front of him, the katana which had been hidden from sight now quite visible. As was the blood which dripped from its tip.

    "Because I dance very well honoured Pheasant. Would you like to dance with me?"

    Akihiko's black eyes danced with anger.

    "Or shall we, instead, dance together against those who would betray their honour and their true Emperor?"
     
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  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    There's two extreme freedoms that a state can impose;

    The one where the state guarantees the value and stability of finances/services and guarantees not to impose any limitations on the trade with such finances. This is Pan-O. Your freedom extends as far as your bank account can take it and is an interesting criticism on where USA is heading.
    Essentially extreme neo-liberalism. (No, it is not capitalism)

    The other one is where the state guarantees your personal freedoms and enforces everyone to respect it. This is Yu Jing. As it stands, there is a lot of nuance to explore on this topic since the fallibility of people enforcing it and the particular set up of the laws they enforce can have massive consequences on individuals - is the state guaranteeing your freedom to do drugs provided you do not use them so that it hurts others or is the state guaranteeing that no one suffers from the use of drugs by others since these individuals can't be trusted when affected? (And that's only one example)
    Essentially extreme socialist. (No, that does not equate to communism, nor plan economy)

    Then there's the weird extremes you'll find with the Nomads. Extreme meritocracy, extreme anarchy and whatever. These are not necessarily freedoms, however. It's also important to remember that true freedom in a society is impossible unless it is taken at the expense of others.
     
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  4. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Sure, but also remember that in the setting it's explicitly stated that food costs and housing costs have dropped to less than 1/100th of average incomes. And PanOceania has nationalised healthcare, so the necessities of life cost basically nothing.

    That goes a long way towards preventing the kind of capitalist hellscape our world is trending towards, and instead produces the prosperous hyperpower with massive leisure discretion we see in PanOceania.
     
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  5. SKOZZOKONZ

    SKOZZOKONZ Well-Known Member

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    Panoceania and our time still will likely share something and that is lack of meaning and purpose. Either you live in today with where people either have no work and are unable to provide for themselves and their families and therefore are void of furfulment. Or the everyday costs increase to the a point where even with a job all effort is put into bare survival without purpose.

    In panoceania the day to day is so easy and leisure so obtainable that it becomes devoid of meaning turning life into a blurred slog for a resurrection to maybe find something next time. Probably why nitrocaine is exploding in pano.
     
  6. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Correct, the church just managed to capitalise on it far more than the other religions, I would expect their main influx comes from irreligious/ atheist individuals though, not from the other religions.
     
  7. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    That's a crass oversimplification and generalisation on both ends.
    The State Empire only tells it's citizens what they deem important to them to know. Common soldiers and citizens alike have no idea what exactly is going on to keep the propaganda machine going that is necessary to run a socialist state.

    Not every bigshot in PanO can be a Harvey Weinstein type. Frankly a terrible example, the guy's professional work has been for the benefit of society. It's his private affairs who are (still allegedly) troublesome. Sure someonle like him still leaves his mark on his field of work but there is bigger fish to fry.
    A much better example would be the Koch brothers, who own 86% of an oil conglomerate and are deeply rooted in the US' oil lobby. You could paint them as the classic PanO CEO type without much of a problem.
    However there are also those who have managed to keep a conscience or couldn't resist it's nagging once they reached the top. Bill Gates has spend half his fortune on philantrophic projects. I doubt his persona needs further introduction beyond that.

    If you have both of those, the "more bad than good" as well as the "more good than bad", you get what we usually mean with grey. It's never pitch black and it's never stainless white.

    Just to give some perspective on that. Capitalism is an economic system based on private profit. Neoliberalism is a political approach what you should be able to do with that profit.

    Making as much money as you want - capitalism.
    Spending money to shoot people for sport - neoliberalism.
     
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  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I honestly think playing the role of the benevolent dictator is appealing.
     
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  9. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I think discussing contemporary politics may derail the discussion in a direction not really worth heading.
     
  10. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    Whaaaa? From what I remember, there are methods besides the Catholic church to gain resurrection. I don't see why anyone unwilling to buy the doctrines would accept to go via Church methods. It's much easier to convert a believer in something than a disbeliever.

    Especially since Abrahamic religions already come from the same basis.

    I always read the fluff that their money, and institutional experience with handling huge amounts of monetary assets, allowed them to essentially behave like a super-powerful hypercorp and thus establish their pre-eminence with PanO matters.
     
  11. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Well you can wait forever to hopefully be resurrected by the PanO welfare, or, maybe the Church with that point system, they give you tasks and if you do them well, they reward you and the best you do, the faster you are to resurrection.

    I see many opportunists to go to the Church because of the system they have in place and the Church shouldn't really care that much the more followers they have the more power they have and their points system makes sure their followers behave as they want.
     
  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Very much this. I managed to detonate a different thread with a statement that is rather firmly planted in contemporary politics. No, I'm not going to repeat it.
     
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  13. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Funny enough, two of us have mentioned how PanO is Cyberpunk, and I remember how CP2020 had the "corpse-lotto", while PanO has the "ress-lotto" XDDD
    And yeah, the best you do, the better your chances to get a ressurrection... for yourself or someone else, the Order Sergeant's background said as much, filled their ranks as they are with the faithfull and the desperate...

    While I agree totally that we should not discuss actual politics, I think it is a healty exercise in awareness to draw lines between real life political lines (regardless of their era) and Infinity's, with the caveat that while it is ok to expose PoV and data, it is not to present any kind of moral judgement (practical one, like "this system worked so and so, and failed here and there" is ok, but not to say "this system was bad because of its treatment of political dissidents", because that tends to spawn unhealthy discussions).
     
  14. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Perfectly OK to feel that way. I enjoy playin Onyx, where we spread enlightenment trough harsh words and occasionally excessive violence. :P
     
  15. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Being a Discworld fanatic I would agree... if only there were more Vetinaris (even one would suffice) around.
     
  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The issue is more that the kind of society that PanO has funnels Harvey Weinstein types to the top. It's certainly possible to view PanO's society as something as horrific as the most dark takes on Yu Jing; it'd go something a bit closer to 120 Days of Sodom than 1984, however.
     
  17. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    That's unlikely in a society where the only certain way to achieve immortality is to live by the moral code of the Christian Church.

    (in B4 child rape jokes)
     
  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I presume indulgences can be bought.
     
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  19. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    While we don't have a full breakdown, what we do know is that donations to the church aren't highly valuable.

    The Catholic Church learned that lesson, unifying with the Protestants who left because it took them too long to learn it is unlikely to change that fact.
     
  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Do we?
     
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