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Yu Jing Fluff - Perception, Reality, Desire

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Devrailis, Mar 28, 2018.

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  1. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Well-Known Member

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    @psychoticstorm I appreciate the clarification - any insights as to why ALEPH decided to support IS "back in the day?" And with that said, my point still stands - if ALEPH is still supporting IS "today" (when the CA is actively knocking at Humanity's door) then it must think that the stability of YJ is critical (or at the very least beneficial) to Humanity's survival. So bring on the tales of the Invincible Army kicking (alien) butt and taking names! Cheers.
     
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  2. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    To clarify Aleph perspective:

    Pano vs Yu Jing is the classic struggle of freedom vs security and individualism vs collectivism. They both have their strength and flaws. But above all else, without competition humans tend to stagnate. So the idea case is that Pano and Yu Jing are stuck in their little cold war perpetually. No doubt part of the reason Aleph backed accepting Ariadna into O-12 was to help restrain the influence of the two big superpowers.
     
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  3. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    I see Yu Jing more as Magneto. Heroic in his own way, but with more ruthless goals and means to achieve them because of differing history and ideals.

    Chinese society is absolutely not evil, it just has to be understood through the lens of a proud, rich and longstanding society that has never been ruled democratically. Chinese people rate their leaders based on progress and success of the nation in the world. Yes it is authoritarian and controlling relative to Western democracies, but for people who have grown up inside it, that's what they're used to. It also has much stricter control of information, so citizens are not confronted with scandals and downsides of the system that an uncensored press would put in front of them.

    There is also a perspective that the openness and lack of loyalty to leadership in Western cultures is a weakness - perestroika, glasnost and reform introducing those ideas in the Soviet Union is seen as contributing to the downfall of the Communist party in Russia. Ergo, allowing that to happen in China would be weakening the country and threaten its growing global influence. That goes double for the moment - Trump is showcasing the weakness of democracy to exploitation and making benevolent dictators for life look like a very efficient way to run things.

    I'll go on the record as strongly believing in democracy and democratic ideals myself, but I have Chinese in-laws and I'm always curious to explore and understand how people can live and thrive in such a different system.

    "Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…" - Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 11 November 1947
     
  4. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Well superficially you could say because Yu Jing are a founding and paying member of project Toth, no need to anger those that pay the bill, in reality ISS is a big stabilising factor for Yu Jing and Aleph needs stable nations, more so if they are so uptight with law, this has great advantages for Aleph, Yu Jing are not probable to start AI projects like PanO did or help lay the foundations of a space-faring Nation in order to keep Aleph eyes out of their illegal activities, like PanO did.

    There is a great fluff piece in the first forum, that unfortunately I have not seen again (I do not recall it been added to N3) its an (supposedly) interview with Aleph, by a rogue reporter, only found in Arachne and considered Nomads propaganda, Aleph sounds hellbent to make humanity survive itself like an overprotective mother, despite the cost in achieving it. many weird choices of Aleph make sense if viewed under that prism.
     
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  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I don't think so... individualism vs. collectivism, perhaps, but people in both states have very little real freedom. Oh sure, you've got your 9001 Mayanet channels in PanO, and you get to choose which color of designer blue to dye your pupils... but if you try to, say, not participate in the hyperconsumerist corporate serf culture... they'll make your life miserable, try to brainwash your friends and family against you, all in the name of mass-media.
     
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  6. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Well-Known Member

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    Wow, thanks much! This is great stuff IMO, especially the last bit about ALEPH acting like an "overprotective mother" to Humanity - I'd love it if that old article could make it into future fluff! (For those of you who don't know, real life Imperial Chinese Magistrates/Judges - basically the historical counterpart to Crane Agents - were often referred to as "father-and-mother officials" by the general populace. No wonder IS and ALEPH get along!)
     
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  7. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Theres a big difference between personal freedom and absolute freedom (aka no consequences for your actions). Actually, Pano citizens do have the freedom to reject the corporate culture but theres a different between personal freedom and consequence. Pano doesn't shield people from the consequence of their actions. I could go own but I suspect I'm dealing with nomad propagandist here. :P
     
    #47 Death, Mar 28, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
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  8. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

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    As the old saying goes: Soviet law guarantees freedom of speech. However, it says nothing about freedom after the speech :P
     
  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Considering that "freedom to reject the corporate culture" (i.e. being an Atek) comes with the government disallowing responsibility for your personal safety, I'd say that it's a hollow promise.
     
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  10. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    I think people cling to much to a handful of dead Ateks to try and paint a very diverse, liberal and advanced society as grey. PanO has personal freedom and personal responsibility. It sounds like you have to try really hard to fuck up as badly as an Atek in PanO. It's not the Government's duty to hold the hand of every idiot who wants to use the roads without knowing the rules or having the right equipment. It's not like the current governments of the world send anyone free brake pads once a year, and they are a requirement of using the road.
     
  11. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    First rule: It's ALL propaganda. Lies from "your" side, or the other side makes no difference. Everyone has bad men doing bad things in the name of societal glue. They're ALL goodish and bad-ish in equal measure. Well, except for the EI. It's a sociopath. Anything that gets it closer to its goal of transcendence is good, anything that stops it is bad.

    The most powerful force in the 'verse is "enlightened self-interest" after all.
     
  12. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Just on Kuang-Shi and Wu Ming... they're (now) the only units in yu jing that don't have cubes. Were their cubes removed when they were imprisoned, or did they never have them in the first place? (ie. only professional military/police units get cubes) ?
     
  13. Shiwen

    Shiwen Commissar, Yu Jing Political Work Department

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    The background notes clearly that the State provides (first-class) citizens with a cube, so I've always assumed it gets removed/disabled for prisoners.
     
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  14. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Am I the only one around who picked up Infinity precisely because it had proper bad guys? Sure I came for the models and stayed for the rules, but nontheless I do appreciate the fluff as a seperate entity.

    No megalomaniac with doomsday device, no misunderstood teenager with sudden access to superpowers turning evil.
    In SciFi or Fantasy settings the good and bad guys alike always have some sort of idiotic leader with plot armour for his stupid ideas/tragic past/whatever.
    In Infinity you might appear to be a hero until it ultimately turns out you're an elaborate L-host killing machine designed to conceal your intended purpose.

    PanO, good old corporate evil incarnate in all it's glory or lack thereof.
    Monolithic corporations too big to control, too big to lead and too big to fail. The pretense human life can't be assigned a price and everyone able to do so is free to engorge himself if they desire.
    The natural conclusion what could possibly happen when people are allowed to pursue whatever they can afford.

    YJ on the other hand is a place of structure and order. At it's core their society functions very differently from it's competition. They managed to keep the bigger picture in reach, to benefit the whole collective instead of the individual.
    However it's still a titanic socialist construct with the resulting flaws. With self imposed restrictions to ensure the wellbeing of it's people the State Empire has trouble competing with the reckless approach to undilluted capitalism outside it's borders.
    Integrating a large foreign culture through natural borders and without a sanctioned way to provide them short term incentives to smooth things over has shown a different set of limits.
    The carrion eaters out for money or power took advantage of the situation putting YJ in a bad light. While idividuals might show behaviour of outward directed aggression, the State Empire itself still hasn't changed it's priority, the people.
    Retaliation beyond a certain point would have been beneficial to uphold appearances or even simply to get revenge, however not for the benefit of the collective. The Kuramori islands were retaken and after that YJ settled for being wise instead of proud.
    YJ doesn't lightly abuse it's might to achieve fickle short term goals and quick profits.

    The one thing it's rivals forget is that YJ is a united front under unified command with much better control over it's parts than the hirelings of their competition. Not a loose conglomerate of forces who happen to temporarily act united for the same interest, merely distracted from their individual agendas.
    The State Empire is able to practice restraint and to steer it's might in a singular manner.


    Outside of fluff reasons, I've started YJ to get everything PanO gets but better. Hsien with Smoke over Aquilas. Hac Tao Killer Hackers instead of Swiss Guard Missile Launchers. Warbands, Chainrifles and CC as alternative means to solving everything by attempting to riddle it with bullets. YJ always struck me as Lawful Neutral compared to the Hyperpower's Neutral Evil. To put that in perspective there isn't a single Faction outside of Ariadna I'd label as Good in terms of alignment.
     
  15. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    I imagine Kuang shi are made by using the prisoner's body as a budget L-Host for the "Kuang Shi" persona which you'd expect to be some variation of cube technology, like a cube but not.
     
  16. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Being an Atek goes beyond rejecting corporate culture. Its not having access to the basics of the technology dependent Pano society. Pano is not the soviet union, not even close. Theres a big difference between voluntarily dropping of the grid and living in a police state.

    There is no society on earth that provides total freedom to the point you can ignore the social norms of the society. Rejecting corporate culture in Pano means your not going to have access to any of the corporate jobs which will leave you poor. Its not Pano actively persecuting people, its people either being born an Atek or choosing to drop off the grid.

    This is opposed to Yu Jing where the government will actively come after you if your openly rejecting the norms of society. Maybe you need to be reeducated citizen.
     
    #56 Death, Mar 29, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
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  17. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Nowadays, yeah. Outside of TAGs (a questionable advantage), theres little advantage to playing Pano. Yu Jing mostly does the same thing but better and with more tools.

    Variety in Pano comes from their secotirals which have significant differences in playstyle. Generic Pano tends to play with the same handful of units that are the most optimized for winning FtF rolls because thats almost the only thing Pano can do. This is why Pano has so many sectorials in the first place.

    Its why I enjoy the Onyx sectorial so much. It plays like Pano but has more tools to use.
     
    #57 Death, Mar 29, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
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  18. Shiwen

    Shiwen Commissar, Yu Jing Political Work Department

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    Are you trying to assert that ateks are all people who have exercised their 'freedom' to drop off grid, and that is why they're poor? Because that is... not what the background says ateks are. You don't even need to spend money on the books to get background countering that, B4ckd00r's Blade Runner reference is right there running a charity to uplift atek children to be part of Sphere society.
     
  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Well, it's more PanO standing by while the corps systematically eliminate every opportunity for the citizenry to live not under their thumb...
     
  20. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Techincally, Pano is the corps since the lobbies rule. So the statement above is a little misleading. And this is little different from Yu Jing who will more direct persecute anyone who doesn't live under the thumb of the party.

    Of course, this would be the nomad perspective. Two superpowers that claim to be opposed to each other but under the surface operate rather similarly. Oh and they both support and in turn are supported by Aleph.

    I would still rather live in Pano than Yu Jing. Pick your poison.
     
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