Yu Jing Fluff - Perception, Reality, Desire

To be entirely fair, I do not think there are reports of out of state on sight news coverage during the engagement, I may be wrong, but the news channel in question IIRC is Yu Jing bound not broadcasting outside Yu Jing.

 

...that... is exactly the stuff that wouldn't make sense... That's exactly the stuff that has been weaponized. It's going back way, way, too far in historic practices to make sense. Like trying to use actual Napoleonic tactics when your enemy has rifles (I believe the Americans eventually learned you don't do this during the Civil War, and curiously has never gone back to it since) or worse yet, electronically targetted rifled heavy machine gun emplacements.
It is in a very literal sense taking a gun and shooting yourself in the foot. Not waving it around threatening people (which has been established doesn't work but people keep thinking will work regardless so they keep waving threats around like that'll make others comply), but actually shooting yourself in the foot in order to intimidate someone. Not even trying to put a spin on it, not even trying to lay the blame on the enemy.

 

So I guess nobody will commend that the Party in official pres called the Japanese citizens to lay down their weapons and be accepted back to the Yu Jing society during the conflict? or this is also bad news coverage?

 

No, because it's not significant.

 

Yu Jing has lost real game power, not just pride. Normally You Jing had 3 ways to win campaign points: Generic, JSA and ISS. Lot of players in YJ only play JSA like first army, now You Jing players are less and it means we will score less points. If we are the villains, we will be a target for the "good guys". I just hope we will earn more players with Invencible Army.

 

It still been a very, very, much very pero que mucho bad plan to present You Jing like the "Villain" of the HS. And show YJ like a shabby bad guy doesn't make JSA greater, just looks like they began a rebelion and YJ is a incompetent faction who's not available to react like a "superpower".
I hate that. I will take my OWN idea of You Jing, CB can make whatever they want.

 

I think it is because it shows that Yu Jing are not only compassionate to the Japanese, but also willing to give them the ultimate chance to not do the madness they committed, far from the way some posters insists of portraying the Yu Jing political government.

And again despite all this Yu Jing did not mass incarcerate or execute the remaining Japanese in Yu Jing territories who are the vast majority of Japanese citizens, yes, they are under constant surveillance for good reason and there are racist incidents from both sides with so heavy ISS presence, but if Yu Jing were as some here portray them, there would have been no Japanese standing.

You really do not give enouph credit to the state empire at all.

 

No, that's acting the way you're supposed to. Disarm the civilian population, de-escalate tension, sort out ring leaders, etc. But when there are sufficient incidents of acting entirely wrong and out-of-character I don't think it's appropriate to hand out cookies for doing the minimum right.

Do you have any examples in the new fluff to support Yu Jing going out of their way to de-escalate, protect the civilians (even the belligerent ones), that isn't ham-fisted may-not-harm-terraforming? "Lay down your weapons and we'll stop" is what the Americans were broadcasting to the IJA when levelling so many cities per week that they had run out of significant cities to nuke.

 

GLACIER of text... -.-

If Gutier were "done", he would not be the one that: reviews ALL fluff of the RPG, writes ALL the new stuff, designs ALL the new units, reviews ALL the playtest results (in theory....).

So no, not fed up.

You seem to forget that ALL the emperors of Yu Jing since the Cube was created are still alive as advisors without real power. I seriously doubt not even one of them knows how to deal with this in a logical way.

Problem is, Gutier is no master playwright... and those tend to not go into such edge-of-the-blade situations because it's almost impossible to achieve success.

The rationalization of this is that O-12 chose the way of minimal carnage and depletion of human resources, however once has to consider that this opens a really big can of worms: all nations have pro-independence movements of colonies, cultures, planets... whatever. One of the real world reasons presented for how the European Community would never accept Catalonia as an independent state was, precisely, that it would open the way for independentist regions in almost all of the member countries.

So the line on the wall is: "make it bloody and costly enough and O-12 will recognize you as an independent nation before the big faction you wanna secede from obliterates you".

No, O-12 recognized Ariadna as a sovereign power because it was a powder keg about to explode: Nomads and Haqquislam were lobbying for Ariadna, PanO and YJ were close to war with each other because of their corporations claiming the whole planet, and the Ariadnans themselves threatened a guerrilla warfare that would never end. The point of "their forefathers were XXX" would be the same as declaring that Australia is part of the British government, since they once were...

CB's style: they will do nothing, and let the Warcors eat the brunt of the hit, and them and those who feel like it to defend and justify the whole book. Why work when those who pay you will also do the job?

Whatever power the nations give it. It's the UN IN SPACEEEEE! with extra funds and troops, the point is that it's a "police force" made by all nations, and in the end with the CA at the door the only way to take it out would be by 100% consensus between all the factions.

According to the RPG that is done by a corporation created and controlled by one of the Bureau offices, to be precise, and have the objective to keep it going as much independent as possible from the factions, even with PanO's Santiagos and YJ's ISS onboard.

You mean colonies, parts of Svalarheima, the Japan Islands, etc...? You know, considering how O-12 does not have rights over those places, while YJ does, war reparations to YJ should be discussed and presented.

Or he doesn't care because he knows people will eat whatever he writes and be grateful for it. Dunno. But we go back to "3 books for Uprising: the JSA, the YJ, and maybe the objective one... if it's not one per faction's PoV". I vote with my wallet there: NO

Id' say they are the ones trying to avoid the house that is the Human Sphere to burn to cinders. Aleph's duty, too... question is which works for which? XD

You do realize that using civilian installations, housing and population as shields is a military war crime? If they fired through those orbitals... hard to justify, since the next thing stuff escalates to is to destabilize that orbital and drop it onto the planet.

So O-12 sides unconditionally on the side of the terrorists who took over a vital piece of technology and starter shooting from there. Nice to know the CA infiltrators only need to do so to win the war against humanity!

Seriously, it seems like there were a lot of idiot balls. And the writer pretends the buyers to hold one each.

 

Disarm the armed forces who up to that point were yours, fully equipped with modern and up to standards military grade equipment, that choose to make the civilian population areas their battlegrounds for the rebellion? Yu Jing were fighting an army not civilians what yo expect them to do, the chairman's office issued exactly what you said I said it and you said it is unimportant.

 

Yes, it's unimportant to the debate at hand. It is the minimum they can do that is not stupid and it's a fairly trivial thing compared to the numerous missteps others have relayed so far. You're holding up something trivial and ask us to have it cancel out the egregious. It's not much of a counter-argument, is what I'm saying. It is at best mitigating it to "dumb moustache twirlers" rather than "dumb cartoony moustache twirlers".

 

Make a secret promises to everybody in order to support you in O-12, succeed in manipulating the civilians of an entire superpower in order to have them by your side, manage to not collapse fast enouph for this to be thrown under the rug lie a bit and it may succeed.

And Yu Jing, Yu Jing were crucial in Ariadnas recognition, I think (as in I do not know but speculate) O-12 also played a role, keeping PanO low without another great resource rich system is in its better interest after all, they keep the human sphere stable and not allowing the two huge ones run amok with power is a really good way to do it.

Most installations are places too poor/ bad to be of proper use so they allowed the Japanese to have them as second class citizens, Japan was practically desolated before the uprising who cares about Earth, for example Kurage was a research station that has nothing, Japan wanted it because scraps of Tasseum are better than nothing.

And this is why in most cases Yu Jing army did not shoot them and used troops instead of their full might, I agree JSA has some explaining to do.

O-12 sides with the minor power that claims something and has the backing of almost all other major powers in their demand, its not JSA vs Yu Jing its JSA with the political back of PanO, Nomads and Haqq VS Yu Jing, same when it was PanO VS Ariadna with the political backing of Yu Jing, Nomads and Haqq.

 

O-12 had to play a role because Ariadna got full "big power" recognition (I assume "big power" are those nations with planets, or enough orbital "soil" to its name like the Nomad Nation), but O12 has not been described anywhere. I assume it is a bureaucracy with some sort of "senate" for the envoys of the big nations, with O-12 being more of an arbiter and administrator.

Going back to the house analogy I used, if the factions are tenants, O-12 would be the building administrator, able to do stuff and call people on their mistakes, but with only the power those tenants allow him.

YJ casted the decisive vote in the Ariadnan independence session, but that is logical: do nothing and PanO grows even more, do something and contain the gap. PanO supporting the JSA is something I have presented as logical since the beginning, what I don't see logical is for ALL the powers siding with the JSA.
Not only is impossible (they would agree 100% on something!), it also is impractical: JSA did not need the support of ALL the human Sphere, just of some key players and a little extra for safety margin... so for example Nomads, PanO and Ariadna, without the need to involve Haqquislam aswell (or leave Ariadna aside and place all the others, etc...).

What? You are essentially saying that since those were not luxury flats, it's not a loss for a company when those were expropiated for no compensation!
It doesn't matter if the stations produce money or not, building those took resources, time and money! Same for the colonies! And Svalarheima!!! We are talking that the O-12 took a piece of YJ's Net column, moved it to another ledger, and called it a day, that is NOT FINE! A single remote empty island can run for millions of dollars, man!

Even so, the problem is that JSA was behaving like a mad dog! Using orbitals as shields, places the O-12 considers attacking a crime against humanity, AND NOTHING HAPPENS TO THEM!

In my head there is NO WAY JSA goes to the state it is in the Army and the fluff after throwing through the window ALL concepts of civilized warfare, the only thing they didn't seem to have done is nuking, gasing, or bombarding from orbit whatever YJ thing they had close by!

 

First of all Ariadna did not support JSA, why would they? PanO, Nomad and Haqq supported them because they were promised stuff, PanO alone would not be able to support them and PanO with one single minor faction would mean Yu Jing could make an offer on the side to be in a stalemate.

And no Japan did not get all the Yu jing territories in Svalarheima, lol no, they got a settlement in Svalarheima, same with everything else, they did not get major territory anywhere, their colonies are minor territories usually enclosed by vast Yu Jing territories.

Will be interesting to see them holding their tiny nation together after the lustre of "Independence" fades.

 

Explain to me, please, until my book in the way.

Do I understand it right, that Kuge are the continuers of the activities of the terrorists Totenokai, who blew up the peaceful Yu-Jing population (actual reason why japanese are the second class citizens)? When they uprising without no clue for Yu-Jing (no matter how idiotic it sounds, when doing that unexpectedly is simply impossible with the existence of such structures as the ISS itself), they started committing crimes against humanity, shielding their troops with a noncombatants? And these terrorists, who are exploding other people's civilians, are shieldwalled by their peaceful population, O-12 and other nations helps with all resourses?

And with all this, Yu-Jing does not interprets this like act of war and does not declare war on the other nations for direct interference in the affairs of the State Empire?

 

@xagroth Doesn't O-12 govern an entire planet? Kind of more like a quasi-merged EU+UN rather than just a well-funded UN.

@gorin while I don't own the book so I don't know if there were any connections between Tatenokai and Kuge, the Kuge are by extension the Kempei side of the conflict and Tatenokai were bombing both JSA, Yu Jing and civilians. Tatenokai should not be related to this.

 

Ok, I said a bunch of nations since I understood for what it was told that ALL human factions banded together to get a piece of YJ. Which leaves little named options, since there are five named human factions, plus O-12/Aleph (which are not, technically, nations with voting rights by themselves, I think).

Unless something changes in CB, that "hold on to those territories" will be handwaved as succesfull.

Can't, the whole Human Sphere would turn against them, leaving them with the only option to surrender to the Human sphere or to the Combined Army. Were not for the CA, a "world war" would ensure, certainly.

I have to check on the RPG entry (if there is one for O-12), but I always thought of them as administrators, and not as side and voting part.

 

Kuge are the old Japanese aristocracy, they are the ones that "sold" Japan to Yu Jing almost unconditionally when America fell and PanO was a minor coalition of powers unintrested to Japan (If I remember the timing well), Yu Jing accepted only to keep the Japanese emperor as the figurehead of Japanese people from their demands and refused to give them their Nobility status inside the Yu Jing, while the Kuge retained much power mainly because of their wealth and industrial power, they craved to be the nobles they once were and machinated the entire uprising conditions through the decades in order to get their nobility back, what happened in the uprising was just the spark that triggered it and the last minute bargains.

Edit O-12 governs the entire star system, don't know if it has more than the planet though.

 

So they retconned HS then? Because I remember very clearly reading the Yu Jing deposed and took away all the Imperial Family's titles.

 

I can definitely confirm that, the removal of Imperial titles was cited as the final straw to birth terrorist resistance clinging to the works of Yukio Mishima. N3 Human Sphere, pp.50, in the English edition at least.