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Yu Jing doesn't allow troops to fight in more than 1 battle?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Bohrdog, May 20, 2019.

  1. IAGO242

    IAGO242 Executive Officer

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    Okay that makes total sense if you put it like that, being Anarcho Syndicalists of sorts
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what an entire army of irregulars would get done, though :D
     
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  3. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I would say Alguaciles are part of the command structure while the Securitates are expected to operate in a more individualistic and personal initiative based operations.
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I must say, your idea of what constitutes Veteran sounds more like Tactical Awareness or with a hint of irregular status. I'd put it that Veteran means the ability to maintain a command structure and communication despite great disruption. More like an informal Chain of Command. "Line's dead, alright Michael, you're in charge while they sort things out, where to now?"
     
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  5. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    And thats how I imagine things going down in the CJC. ;)
     
  6. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I am not sure that is what I said, veterans do not need the direct communication with the command to known what to do and can order others around in a coordinated manner, tactical awareness shows a trooper who can take initiative for himself.
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's not a single thing, but I can't really see how having "individualistic and personal initiative" be a proper veteran, because the concept of a regular order is to coordinate, accept orders, work as a team and follow instructions. An army organisation where personal initiative is the primary drive and soldiers acting as individuals is the definition of an irregular order structure.
    Veterans maintain the ability to "follow instructions, maintain discipline under enemy fire, work in a team and coordinate with his comrades" even when comms are down and HUD is broken.

    In either case, Veteran L1 is probably a skill CB should start sprinkling all over the place until it becomes more common than a Hacking Device. Each army should have at least a couple. I'd even go so far as argue Veteran, Elite, characters and Headquarters should have it by default.
     
  8. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Maybe not all characters, some work fine as irregulars too, but in general I feel the same.
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    True, not all characters, but the characters belonging to these Veteran+ units. I was just idly remembering... Follow Up?... classified
     
  10. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    As I've understand from talks with staff and the background, There are two main factors why.
    • Yujing military service is seem like some kind of public service and a stepstone to study and be someone in the civil society. So after some years of service most soldiers get out of the military
    • Yujing troops seem to have a evolution/upgrade system.
      - A zanshi evolves to diferent things like guilangs, zuyongs, haidaos...
      - A CG evolves to diferent agent ranks like bao, zhanyin, or pheasant...
      - A zuyong evolves to shangji or other special HI rol...
      and thus a yujing soldier will never end up being so specialized and hardened in one particular rank/field, or continue to act like clocwork even if their line of command falls down.
    But of course, That doesn't only regarding the Veteran rule. Of course there are veteran troops
     
    #30 Mc_Clane, May 21, 2019
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  11. TenNoBushi

    TenNoBushi Well-Known Member

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    As I see it:
    - Veterans know what to do because they already lived that ten times before. It's their own experience that make them act, you can't take that from them.
    - Tactical Awareness is a "superior" (more precise) datasphere accessible to troops trained to analyse this bigger data flow and take advantage of it (I see Lieutenant L2, more a less like that too). It's a better access to the battlefield data that make them act, cut the data access and they are normal troopers.
    - NCO is a direct link to the upper echelon to receive direct order from way above yourself because your a trusted asset. It's a direct order that make them act, cut the direct link and they are normal troopers.
     
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  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, all USN carriers are nuclear powered, as are all their submarines. I was on subs.

    Note that some USN ships that look kinda like carriers, the various landing ships with a big helicopter deck, are NOT nuclear powered.


    Depends on the organization and training.

    Submariners are notorious in the USN for being independent-minded, to the extent of being EXPECTED to ignore orders that are dangerous to the ship.

    'Skimmers' (surface sailors) really hate dealing with us for that.


    Possibly, but that also requires those officers to be expected to exercise their initiative.

    If we got a ReCreation of Guan Yu (or someone like that), I would absolutely expect him to have Inspiring Leadership.


    Yeah, NO.

    Space is even less forgiving than the sea, in terms of shit that can go wrong and kill everyone. You can tolerate a large amount of "do what you want, just don't bother anyone else" up until the point someone does something stupid and threatens the safety of the ship.

    When the ship is in danger is exactly the most important time for someone to be In Charge, and coordinate all the separate pieces. Once that happens, each person has their assigned part of the disaster response. My part was either immediate fire response while on watch, manning a firehose team while off watch, or working the atmosphere monitoring gear during battlestations.




    Yeah, that's kinda the problem.

    You can get away with ... minimally hierarchical organizations when everyone knows exactly what the plan is and what the objectives are. But there still needs to be someone in charge to determine the objectives and the plan to achieve them.

    One of the reasons the modern military has so many layers of hierarchy is because any given person can really only control 3-7 'things'. So a fireteam has a leader with 3 people under them. A squad has 2-3 fireteams (and can have another team or two added). A platoon has 3-4 squads (and can have another couple teams or squads added). etc.
     
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  13. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Ah, knew that would make sense.

    At least I assumed as much, considering the sheer size of aircraft carriers.

    Neat.
     
  14. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Ok, makes sense for Navy/Ships/etc. but isn't Infinity about covert operations?
    There are simple objectives to complete and the difference between CJC and Yu Jing is: you have a group of "marines" that grew up on the same ship in a culture where there is only minimal hierarchy and a multiplanet empire that is all about hierarchy. So it makes sense to me that the CJC can improvise and execute missions without an Lt. way easier then a group that's made out of different military branches. I guess in the end it depends on how well they are briefed and trained, but since CJC also are mercenaries I imagine them having quite a lot of experience on average, I guess not as much as Morats, at least that's what CB is telling us with the rules.

    I suppose, maybe Nomads are used to talk a lot so if through EM there communication devises break down they are more fucked then Morats, but still doesn't really explain to me why CJC doesn't have any CoC units. I guess it might just be gameplay reasons, but it never made sense to me.
     
  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm hoping that when they get around to resculpting the Corregidor minis, they add someone with Chain of Command/XO/etc. From the fluff, I'd nominate Intruders for that. "This is Intruder Sergeant Jayne, I am the Man In Charge!"

    I'd also like to see more troops with the Number 2 rule, to be able to take over in the link team. Ideally in a profile that you'd be including anyway! And I mean a Number 2 trooper in every possible link team, at that.
     
  16. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    We already have the Intruders as Lts... Wildcats could be a candidate for CoC, since Nomads is the faction of MI and they are their most Grunt MI unit (Grenzers are "so pretty" XD). As for NCO, I can see the Brigadas only, and maybe it was better to give them a Tactical Awareness profile instead.
    A new Alguacil Nº2 would be sweet, even if it was Lupe Balboa.
     
  17. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yu Jing can take Hac Tao as XO, though it's an expensive profile for the job of backup LT. (I could have sworn Hac Tao could be LT, that may have been something from N2 though)

    Yu Jing
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]2
    HAC TAO MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 64)
    HAC TAO (Executive Order) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 65)

    0.5 SWC | 129 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  18. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    I sincerely hope that not. Regardless of the romantical thoughts of some players like you, this is a game and as such it must remain balanced. Right now Nomads is a faction stupidly gifted with almost everything but command skills. That's their weak point and it must be that way.
     
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  19. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Nomads are raised in a culture of showing great personal responsibility and getting great personal freedom as a result. You can basically live however the fuck you want on Corregidor as long as you turn up to work on time and do your job properly. A Corregidor soldier doesn't get disciplined by their CO for minor infractions because they'll tell them to fuck off. But it's absolutely expected that they'll fight hard and effectively and work as a team in a situation where the shit hits the fan.

    Honestly living in space probably is the only environment where that'd be culturally ingrained from such a young age for it to be a possible system to run a military on. No one will tell you to shave or tuck your shirt in but the flipside is everyone expects you to handle your shit at all times. And they all do it because they're all raised from the cradle like that.
     
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  20. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    It could be said that Yujing is stupidliy gifted. We have pretty much everything but G:Sinchronized troops and good hackers. I don't see that statement as a valid argument.

    This is more like it
    And concerning the rules...

    The problem from executive order inside corregidor is that it's a rule designed to Hidden deployment Troops. Regular camos don't fit inside It's mechanic because they're already on the table from the beginning
     
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