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Your Kiel-Saan Thoughts

Discussion in 'Spiral Corps' started by DustGod, Apr 2, 2019.

  1. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Neema is slower, slightly less tough against most attacks and slightly less good in CC. She has other strengths but the Kiel-Saan definitely has many and varied good reasons to be taken. And metachem varies from decent to awesome on the big guy too. Like the worst roll you could get would probably be what, +3 BTS? And on a hackable troop that's not even bad at all.
     
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  2. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Worst roll on a Kiel-Saan is generally going to be situational, e.g. +6 BTS if you're playing against Ariadna or bioimmunity if you're playing against an army with no viral or shock weapons (specifically shock, not multi).

    In short the likelihood of the skill being completely dead on the Kiel-Saan is extremely low, and the likelihood of it being pretty useful is high. Plus you'll have the occasional game where one rolls total immunity or something and goes off like a frog in a sock.
     
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  3. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    Here's a list compiled off this Thread with Things added by multiple posters if you want to add to this please do...
    It give us a good idea of what Kiel-Saan's MetaChemisrty Roll will do for him.

    (+1 ARM) : ARM: 5 Thankyou

    V: No Wound Incapacitation: on top of Symbiont+Mate/Bomb gives him fantastic staying power

    V: Dogged: Keep Fueling him

    Sixth Sense L2: Can't be Blindsided

    Bioimmunity: you are immune to Viral, and - drumroll - entitled to use your stupidly high BTS against - Wait for it! - Shock ammunition

    Regeneration: Heal your Symbiont armor

    Enhanced Mobility (MOV 8-4): 12" Assault Move yes please

    Super-Jump: over the building oh thank you!


    Reinforced Biotech (+6 BTS): BTS 12 which means it is nearly invulnerable to Jammers, (they need to roll a crit, or need you to roll a 1 for it to work), and with Fairy Dust up they have an effective BTS 15 against all Hacking, making it nearly invulnerable to Hacking

    Climbing Plus: Gorilla Much?!!!

    Enhanced Physique (+3 PH): Killing Blow at 17+DA/Shock

    Immunity: Total: Nothing hurts me!!!!

    Please add to this if you have a suggestion other than what's here
     
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  4. Kazgarom

    Kazgarom New Member

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    There are a few things that need to clarified in my opinion.

    Regeneration will never allow you to heal your symbiont armor (SA). While the chances to get a success on the roll are higher cause you've got SA you still need to be in NULL state to do so and only recover 1 wound, which means you will stay in the inactive profile.

    A lot weapons have different options than only shock. Those people you need to inform that your Kiel-Saan has Bioimmunity so they can choose another ammunition. This also is the case for the optional skill of Marksmanship LVL 1. They just wont use it against a unit with high BTS and Bioimmunity.
     
  5. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    You do not need to be in a Null state to declare Regeneration. You would not get the +3 phys for having Symbiont Armor, but you can still recover a wound on the active Symbiont Armor state with Regeneration.
     
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  6. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    I was confused by this for a min too... But it's "Even When" models with regeneration can attempt to heal themselves at any time "Even When in an Null-State"
    • This special skill allows its user to spend the Entire Order required to activate it even when on the battlefield in a Null state.
    • Regeneration allows its user, by passing a PH Roll, to regain 1 point previously lost from his Wounds Attribute.
    • If the user fails his PH Roll, he loses 1 additional point from his Wounds Attribute.
    Also I don't have to inform them about bio immunity..
    its open info and the roll is done right in front of them. If they shoot it with shock they shoot it with shock.. I do like to play fair and everything at the same time I'm not going to give every single possible advantage to my opponent I'm not going to tell them

    "don't shoot them with that ammo they will turn it to regular ammo pick something else to do that can kill me...."

    Btw Welcome to the forums...

    @nehemiah just curious why can't use the + 3?
    I'm being lazy man...
     
    #46 DustGod, Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  7. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Your underlined section does allows Regeneration to be Declared when Unconscious but it is not a restriction, it is an exception to the general rule that Unconscious troopers cannot Declare skills.

    Compare Regen to Automedikit or Doctor, the Requirement to be Unconscious is missing, people have been Regenerating 1W Asawiras since release.

    You DO have to inform them about Bioimmunity as it is open information and therefore must be shared with your opponent. You at least need to inform your opponent when the Metachem roll is made but it would be good sportsmanship to write it on the courtesy list or remind your opponent if they're using a Shock/Viral weapon.
     
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  8. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    They're never going to choose Shock on a MULTI weapon anyway against a 2W target. By the time anyone picks Shock it will barely matter because he will be ARM0 BTS0.

    I think that's what he was pointing out to the new poster by quoting the rules (it's not the same dude in both comments), i.e you don't need to be unconscious to regenerate, per the rule.
     
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  9. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    It matters for troopers with Marksmanship 1, by default it is "on" but you would want to not use it vs Bioimmunity.
     
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  10. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    @colbrook I know this but @Kazgarom is a little confused
    @meikyoushisui I would hope not that would definitely be a noob move... but in the case of something like a Red Fury that doesn't have a choice very beneficial...
    Also to think of it as most weapons that have an alternative fire type also lose burst if I'm thinking about this correctly that could force smaller bursts against this guy...
    Not all weapons but some... So that's pretty cool
     
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  11. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I think I didn't write this correctly the first time what I mean is I'm going to do the roll in front of my opponent they're going to know I have Bioimmunity but I'm not going to go out of my way to make sure that every time they shoot me they're not using Shock... "Does that gun have Shock? Better use a different one"

    I think what I was trying to say was misinterpreted little bit.
    Totally going to let them know I have bio immunity or whatever the perk is for MetaChemisrty. But I'm not going to hand hold them every shot against my model... that's what I was trying to say.
     
    #51 DustGod, Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
  12. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    The +3 Phys to regeneration and medkit rolls provided by Symbiont Armor requires you to be in an unconscious state.
     
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  13. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    Thanks man
     
  14. sorniak

    sorniak Well-Known Member

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    Comparison and utility.
    Kiel-Saan is not the best cc fighter, and is not the best shooter in Spiral corps. If you need fat shooter, maybe it is better to invest into neema with spitfire and tri-core will be more powerful. If you need to break consoles...then, well, you can have !!2!! Igao (for 0 swc!) for same price Kiel-Saan has...
    What else can you have instead of Kiel-Saan...depends on your needs:

    Need great amount of cc havoc?
    Kiel-Saan = Igao BS + Perceptor with 2 symbiobeasts (and you will spare 1swc!!!)

    Need "scalpel" strike and mission execution?
    Kiel-Saan = Kiituan Imposter (smg + e/mauler) + clipsos (forward observer)

    Need some stable total reactor killer\missle launcher 5member link killer? (someone with looong range weapon and ODD might do the trick)
    Add 0.5 swc and ->... Kiel-Saan + 0.5swc = armand with msv1 + you still will have points for delegate and warcore

    Need more reliable heavy weapon wich also would provide some cheap orders and deployment guardians? What about:
    Kiel-Saan + 0.5swc = TRIAD( Taagma msv2 viral sniper + 2x Chaksa baggage ) + Delegate + Warcore

    In my opinion, Kiel-Saan does not bring reliable and effective instruments to do anything specific for his price tag. For any mission you can have better and cheaper tools. Kiel-Saan seems to be mighty universal Rambo, who can CC and shoot, but yet this game is more about shooting... Rambo thing sounds pretty, but if you really want some rambo, then maybe you need to look into other army... PanOc with swiss guard for example...or hac-tao in Yu Jing... or Mighty Avatar in CA. Or cost-effective Kriza buraq in Nomads?
     
  15. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    @sorniak man you got that all wrapped up in the nice package... I think I'm just never going to bring one now:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
    Yeah but not to shoot holes in the last part of your statement too much here but then what's the point of playing Spiral Corps.
    I just want you to give this some thought...Pertaining to your last paragraph...

    If this game was only PanO Nomads HaqqIslam...
    It would suck... not to get too much on the defensive here but suggesting complete different armies to fill a gap or a certain play style is kinda "silly"

    Well if you want to Rambo play a different Army... Come on... Really... I have PanO and Haqq... I don't like Nomads...

    I get what you're saying about different units can fill those roles and you can buy multiple models to take care of this particular or that particular like I totally get it.. optimizing
     
    #55 DustGod, Apr 9, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
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  16. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Shock is never effective against Kiel because he is a multiwound unit or am I missing something?
     
  17. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    Kiel-Saan Rolls Bioimmunity and say is shot with a Red Fury. That's all...
    Bioimmunity: you are immune to Viral, and - drumroll - entitled to use your stupidly high BTS against - Wait for it! - Shock ammunition
     
  18. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Yeah DustGod I got that part sorry if I wasn't clear someone wrote that: They're never going to choose Shock on a MULTI weapon anyway against a 2W target. By the time anyone picks Shock it will barely matter because he will be ARM0 BTS0.

    I was just confused if some interpreted the inactive symbiont armor profile as a 1 wound profile and with that shock being useful
     
  19. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I pointed that out too. By the time it matters, it's basically irrelevant. The only exception is MML1.
     
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  20. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    I didn't realise that Kiel-Saan's BTS drops to zero once he gets in Inactive Symbiont Armour state.
    My bad.
    Thank you, mates, for clearing this up.
     
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