Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by Commoner1, Sep 28, 2020.
So nothing was taken, got it.
Van Zant no longer has his own thing, now it's available in a few factions. UKR is no longer exclusive to USARF and Vanilla, we lost cool marksman grunts, we lost being able to outnumber with the 15 order limit, spec fire got worse.
And outside of a couple buffs to characters we got nothing but some price increases.
I think it's mostly the feeling that they took the cool stuff for other factions, and then just ignored the USARF, which they have done pretty much since release.
Tac Jump wasn't always Van Zant's sole providence. Nothing was taken. MMLX was nigh-useless anyway, even after the change. Just because UKR is in another sectorial doesn't mean USARF has lost a damn thing. Spec Fire was never particularly amazing for us because we didn't have an X-visor core fireteam with a LGL. 15 order limit is a thing, but at least everyone else has to play by the same rules.
As far as what we gained, UKR is a monster now, MSV1 buffs help us because we have a lot of it, 0 SWC Grunt Lt., 0 swc mounted 112, all of our molotoks became ap spitfires, van zant has nco now... there's plenty we gained.
You're being extraordinarily wrongheaded about this.
Nah, you just had to use it right.
And that was shooting through saturation zones, where the enemy loses shots coming back at you, but you don't lose shots shooting at them cuz you're already down to burst 1.
Also with coordinated orders. Because 4 Marksmanship LX sniper rifles all shooting at one big nasty TAG do a lot to delete that tag.
Sure, it was niche, but it wasn't useless.
How are you setting up that shot with snipers on the TAG? It was an Entire Order to use. And Ariadna didn't have nimbus grenades, so shooting through saturation zones was a crapshoot.
I used sniper grunts quite often, mmlx just felt like a useless tax.
From a game design standpoint it was a bit silly to have rules that only benefit one unit. That is the root cause of rules bloat. Like Antipodes had a whole page how they worked, now they roled them into the general peripheal rule. They could have decided two ways with van Zant. Either give him regular parachutist like the rest or make it something more wide spread. I am happy CB choose the latter.
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Also results in the increased possibility of both players Van Zanting each other in a match, which sounds awesome.
Got in a game against Kosmoflot yesterday with my PanO, have thoughts. M5 with Van Zant's magic deployment wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, mainly due to the fact that Ariadna can't stop my Hackers easily- Margot and Duroc were Targetted instantly via a Repeater which gave me a better shot to repel them. Sending in a Paracommando with a Medkit behind Duroc allows for nasty trades, though, and my opponent wasn't able to spare his whole order pool for a rampage so I had a better time than usual. Wallace, Varangian and Volkolak link is a giant pain in the rear; everyone has super-reliable Smoke, is a genuine CC threat and they're all pseudo-2W to boot! Their big weakness is Templates, but they perform far above what their points cost should indicate. Lastly, that damn Bearpode has Berserk that works with Climbing Plus on top of everything else! I really, really hate trying to fight that thing; only high Burst or a few hard counters have a chance of stopping it before it can seriously start its rampage.
I'm still not keen on what Kosmoflot represents from a story, design or business perspective, but as an army it seems functional and maybe even fun. It has no Sensor though, so mass Camo will be a problem!
What's wrong with its fluff/story?
There's a couple of spelling errors, but apart from that...
I hate the Kosmoflot sectorial, because it is a poorly executed attempt to hide the power-creep Corvus Belli is pushing all the time lately. And they think if they change the name of the unit we will not realize that they make new models better with every iteration so that people buy the models to field the overpowered profiles.
Bearpode, aka, 2nd Caledonian Irregular 2.0
Gets Dogged, +1 Damage on the Chain Rifles, Trench Hammer, Berserk, +1 ARM, +1 CC, +2 CC Damage and Climbing Plus instead of Super-Jump. Oh and it is regular so it can claim cover now (in which case Climbing Plus is much better than the Super Jump). And all these upgrades for 3 points increase over the Cameronian Irregular...
Kosmosoldat, aka, Mormaer 2.0
In this case they straight up removed the Mormaer so that you can't see how much better the Kosmosoldat is. But comparing with previous AP HMG Mormaer the Kosmosoldat gets +1 Damage on the AP HMG, NWI instead of Dogged, Immunity (Shock) to go with the NWI, 0,5 SWC less and also +1 ARM for the hell of it.
I assume they could not justify turning iconic character like Duroc into a bear, so he stayed. But got improved with Parachutist [Deployment Zone], got cheaper (5 points for Equipe Mirage-5) and got +3 CC. And Margot received BS Attack (Shock) and a Light Shotgun as if her loadout was not good enough without a template weapon.
I would rather see them improve/overhaul the existing sectorials instead of trying to sell us the same profiles with new models and names...
@Thomashkis I am not convinced yet since the return of Caledonia and MRRF is promised. We do simply not know how certain old profiles end up. I see a lot of rebalancing going on and turning a lot of old profiles useful while adding new units that have bit more competition on what to choose. Which I would not call powercreep persee. Like the examples that you bring in. The Bearpode is better then the other doggos, but he also costs 31/32 points while a Cameronian is 20. That is more then a 50% uptick in cost, cause you will not ever just pay just 23 for the one where the controller comes along filling a precious slot. The Kosmosoldat can be compared to the old Mormaer, but we do not know what the Mormaer will be in N4. And the Kosmosoldat looks to be outshone by other old units like the Vet Kazak and Unknown Ranger. Mirage-5 is an older profile that got a rework in line whit what we see cross board. Cheaper, sharing more rules with other units, +3 CC is what all the dogs got and the shotgun does not suprise me, since she was a Moblot who have such a weapon in there old N3 profiles (what they turn out to be in N4 I do not know). Her LGL got a small nerf which was for me her most powerfull asset in N3. Mentioning Mirage 5 and Kosmoflot in such a way sounds contradicting to me, since it has been filled with older profiles that got a reworked.
Currently every list that I build looks like a healthy list of new things to try out and old but gold units. I still have to get games in to get a feel of the land, but I will not be surprised if data shows that in N4 every faction has around a 50% win margin like in N3.
I used Wallace as Lt in 90% of my lists and he has a very high suvival rate. He is a super obvious Lt, yes, but unless you are a impersonator or a superior infiltrator CC monster, im not scared.
Why would you not take one with controler? I for one can't see why I would pay more for BSG verison when I can get 2 D14 chain rifles and extra order(with ls is quite good dz defender) for just 1 extra pts.
And it's not like you don't suddenly need order monkeys despite having 15 order limit, so that 9pts order with ls is better than rifle kazak for defense.
Minor disclaimer, I'm only working from secondhand story via the forums and what I can extrapolate from the profiles themselves. I don't have the book yet since I'm waiting for the FLGS to reopen after the local COVID lockdown as I figure it may need the support after being shut down for three quarters of a financial year.
The thing about Kosmoflot's limited public fluff that bothers me is exactly how unimpressive it is. Ariadna was always separated from its peers by its lack of spaceflight, its inability to expand, and overcoming that failing is a dream that Ariadnans have backstabbed their own allies for at Wotan. Now O12 asks, Ariadna spawns a space military. Yay. And what makes this space military so different from the normal Ariadnan forces, how did they meet the challenges of such a hostile foreign environment? Why, they didn't! Same rando irregulars and smugglers that the rest of Dawn uses, ammo that would perforate a ship's hull and choke that moronic helmetless bear- oh, and an expensive to feed, hard to train carnivore in space. There's no thought put into how Ariadnan doctrine would need to change in order to meet the challenge of space operations, and that is a real let-down for me as a big fan of military sci-fi.
I'll doubtless have a more well-formed opinion after reading the book around Christmas, since there's no way the local leader's PR people will let him keep retail shut at that time of year unless COVID starts actively setting people on fire.
Just to give the Sparknotes for those who haven't gotten the book/read Kosmoflot.
Its looking like Ariadna is going to lose their court cases against Pan-O, Yu-Jing, and the JSA on the claims to the two outer continent/islands , the Mat' government isn't pleased and doesn't want to lose out of the riches in the unexploited solar system so they give the Space Force (Kosmoflot) they've been working on a big boost in funding. They have probes on several planets so those are fine but the asteroid belt is a bit trickier. Right after the Commercial Conflict they have their hands full on the ground so they can't do anything so they lease mineral rights to mostly Nomad/Haqq companies at a discount with the promise that they'll help look after Ariadnan interests in the system. meanwhile they're working as best they can to improve their tech to be able to police the system themselves for two reasons 1) to improve their standing with O-12/the rest of the Sphere, 2) to be able to stop relying on others to protect their interests. Ariadna is able to buy several old Haqq and Yu-Jing light frigates or heavy patrol boats and have the Nomads retrofit them and train their maintenance techs. This gives them a small but functional navy from which they can deal with smugglers, pirates, and illegal miners.
To fill it out they've got some specially created units, Kosmosoldat, Volkolak, and the Polaris Teams, who are an abomination to both God and science (the national breakdown of all three units are vague so currently its unknown if they're all Kazak units or if its just the names that are Russian). And in the interest of International cooperation they ask for more units to fill the roster, FRRM sends the Para-commando and Mirage-5, the Rangers send Captain America (and i thought the Foxtrots but that appears to have been a fever dream), Caledonia sends their least xenophobic units, the Scots Guard, Varangian Guard, and SAS, as well as Wallace because the Justicar considers him a political if not existential threat. With more Kazak units filling things out as needed.
Like i said this is the sparknotes version, there's a fair bit of detail and nuance that i've bulldozed through to try and make it a quick read. personally i'd give the Kosmoflot story like a 7-8/10, could be better, could be a hell of a lot worse.
If you have the list with the bear at 14 troops and 299 points it's pretty much a no brainer, but when you're starting off aiming for 15, using two slots at a time isn't going to be your first choice...
Burst 2 dam 14 large template vs b2 dam 16 small template and a chance of actually hitting something further away is a slightly more difficult choice. The extra order isn't really a big deal since it'll be easier to get to 15 orders than 300points, and you're probably not going to be using them as cheerleaders, so the impetuous order will pretty much get you the same number of orders anyway.
Bear with controller can get to cover and go to ARM 8 BTS 3.
For me it could be only reason to always get Chain version.
To be honest when I fist saw Kosmoflot it seemed to me like it was a clashing rag-tag discordant mess. This all changed when I got it through my head that Kosmoflot = AEC
Thanks for that report; ...Mirage5 to play is not easy. Not in the past and not now. They fall when you drop them wrong and say byebye to think they are alphastriker; not on a tournament. But in the past they have "Rambo-ed" units of units. Oh!; I think they can do it also in N4 but not in all situation. When I have the second turn, I am thinking about; is it not better they are in your own deployment zone?
I can them deploy normal like the other units; right?