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You want more NA2?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by ObviousGray, Apr 1, 2019.

?

Would you like to see more NA2?

  1. Why not?

  2. Depends

  3. No, its too crowded

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Since there are assessments of the holistic religious situation in PanO that make no mention of this population, except if they're intended to have converted to Christianity, I think it's more likely that the writer just didn't know about them. Alternatively, they're meant to have been disappeared somehow, but I personally find that unlikely.
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Nah, you probably need to express it, because it's fairly incongruous. It's not like the, for example, Observance are portrayed as anything other than religious crazies.

    But mercenaries won't, or at least won't do it in an obvious way. StarCo has maintained a good reputation somehow, despite probably doing some shady shit behind the scenes.

    Depends on the military. Compare StarCo to the Yu Jing military police.

    There's no reason not to; this is basically how Qapu Khalqi operates when they send Hafza overseeing mercenaries. Now, QK cares a lot less about PR than ALEPH, but ALEPH could basically be doing the same thing.

    You started with "all mercenaries commit war crimes at the drop of a hat, and regular armies don't" as a truism, and you're having trouble because that's an indefensible position. I'm using logic, but not much of it, because it doesn't take much to counter that viewpoint.
     
  3. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    There are three tiers of NA2 powers, mind you all of them together are not even close to a true power even if that power is Ariadna who have no fleet.

    JSA is the only Major power, it is a (minor) nation, has a (minor) fleet and can have some (usually minor) influence around their territories
    StarCo, The Foreign Company, Dahshat, Ikari and The White Company are the big five they have their own armed ships (usually light armed freighters, but Dahsat has an actual corsair ship) but work with free trade brotherhood for transportation and joint ops

    Spiral Corps has its own transport ship, it gives them quite the flexibility but does not place them with the big five, so far they seem to be a really minor and specialised mercenary company that enjoys more spotlight than they would normally have because of their strange nature and specialisation.

    Druze have no vessels of their own and rely on the freetrade brotherhood for transportation, but have a lot of land power.
     
  4. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    I never said regular armies do not commit war crimes; in fact, I kept pointing out war crimes are a feature of war always.
    What I said, had you bothered to read my words, is that mercenaries are more likely to commit war crimes, and that they (as a group, not as individuals) will almost always actually commit war crimes (and specifically, pillaging).

    But you keep on strawmaning, don't want to crimp your style.
     
  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Listen, I'll give you a break since English isn't your first language, but what my words meant was that you've made a false statement - that mercenaries will *always* commit war crimes, and that national armies *won't*.

    Besides, ALEPH already puts its recreations in with mercenaries - the Military Orders are noted as being private military companies, and ALEPH sent Joan. Why aren't the MO committing war crimes left, right, and center? Oh, maybe it's because you stated a falsehood...
     
    ObviousGray likes this.
  6. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    This is a really convoluted subject, you may want to continue it in the off topic?
     
    toadchild likes this.
  7. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    Sorry psyhoticstorm, I keep getting pulled in. But this will be my last post on this subject, just a quote of first time I mention regular armies in this thread:
    Emphasis mine.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Dude, you're just wrong. We've already given you plenty of reasons. And don't take @A Mão Esquerda 's likes as sign of agreement; he just goes around liking everyone I disagree with.
     
  9. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Yeah, we're still due the White Company, along with maybe a PMC or two from PanO.
     
  10. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Well, the White Company could be the ALEPH/PanO crossover company.
     
    Postmortem likes this.
  11. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    I think, as more NA2 forces could come into play the category might be better off split up to reduce the clutter. Right now the only true army amongst them is JSA - the rest are mercenary companies of various sizes.

    We know some Earth-based nations are minor powers, like Nigeria and Russia - Maybe on the level of how many modern-day regional powers get supplies and gear from allies. On paper at least a Saudi tank regiment is meant to be as well armed as a US one, for example. In reality, the Saudi export tanks are of slightly lesser quality in terms of armour, but are light years ahead of the sort of export model downgrades we saw in the past. Tactics and doctrine are a different story, but I digress. Point is, Nigeria might have a mix of YuJing and PanO imports, like remotes or the like.

    Other minor independent bodies exist out there as well - Israel and Iceland were mentioned in some fluff somewhere IIRC, theres the Free City of Tycho on the moon (basically the last permanent settlement).

    Could also be 'generic' rules for like pirate bands, generic corporate security, etc.

    The problem of course is balancing them, and making them be unique in some way. Varangians may be mainly Ariadnan with some ALEPH stuff if they ever arrive, but future NA2 forces, well, who knows when they might emerge? Maybe some kind of regular Infinity update alongside the new game that's going to be like [Exoatmospheric Bruce Banner]? Another book?

    Was gonna joke that ALEPH and PanO already cross over with some of the shared units, but there's plenty of scope even within Steel Phalanx, let alone newer OSS stuff, for some crossing to make interesting little merc mobs.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    If we're going to dive into the history of warfare, part of every soldier's pay, whether conscripted by a lord or a mercenary, was pillaging. This was only finally removed as a normal thing in about 1900, and wasn't codified until the 1949 Geneva Conventions. (Rape was also a known and expected part of things, but was considered unacceptable sometime around 1700 in the west, but still expected in the east until 1945.)



    I'd still like at least one set of Evil Megacorp(tm) troops, whether Weyland-Yutani or MagnaObra.

    Someone that makes Druze look like nice guys. Because honestly, the Druze are only on record as being as bad as the US Marines were during the Banana Wars.



    History of warfare and how mercenaries soldiers-for-hire are inherently evil (or not).

    There was a nasty, nasty debate in the US at the end of the draft where General Westmoreland compared volunteer soldiers to mercenaries, and Milton Friedman compared drafted soldiers to slaves:
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  13. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Exactly. Some Shukras to investigate, Devas for PR, a Naga or two for Infiltration, ALEPH REM support.
     
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    You're assuming I am taking a very singular argument in a more complex topic (particularly you should read my last paragaraf you quoted in an accent thick with sarcasm). I feel I have reasons to distrust and loathe mercenaries (aka PMCs) in real life that are justifiable, but it's not as simple as "they are bad guys". I consider their existence to be a destabilizing factor on whichever region they operate in and that they have a corroding influence on state and accountability, but this doesn't equate to them naturally and automatically being war criminals. It's more like corruption.
    (Edit: also, responding to a direct quote before going to the next page... so yeah...)
     
    #74 Mahtamori, Apr 3, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
    DukeofEarl likes this.
  15. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    There are other NA2 powers (countries?) outside of earth, not sure if they have armies and I do not think they affect anything outside their territory.
     
    Del S and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  16. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    An "ALEPH NA2" wouldn't be a merc company, it would be the O-12 army.
    NA2 is where O-12 would end up, if it ever happens. With some faction-specific troops backed by ALEPH and probably some token from each of the big factions (eg. PanO remotes, Zuyong, Tomcats or Zeros all in the same faction).
     
  17. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    Most of them probably have some form of support from the Nomads or Haqqislam if they're not being used as proxies by PanO and Yujing. Not that getting guns from one side prevents a third being an ally.

    Factor in the standard cyberpunk trope of NGO Superpower corporations and I doubt MagnaObra is the only big company that may act more like a small undeclared nation. Mining corporations and workers revolts in Human Edge would be a good source for possible NA2 stuff.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  18. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    Can we please just keep Aleph out of mercenary factions? You can get 10 more mercenary factions, just don't put Aleph troops in them.

    If you want Aleph troops, give them to O12 or some NA2 enttity armies like Nigeria, Russia, moon city, etc. That could work since Aleph would likely be providing them with some services in exchange for integrating into their societies.
     
  19. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Contractor for Bureau Aegis

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    I feel like Svengali would work as an NA2-Aleph, since some of its secondaries are basically devas, some of them with Asura-level tech and Saeligs and Zeldas are pretty much the same as independent aspects and recreations.
     
  20. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I am not sure if O-12 has Aleph units in them (maybe for containment protocols?), or units from any other faction, been recruited to O-12 means you loose any citizenship and belong to them, one thing is for sure O-12 is not a minor power but a proper major power in the sphere with military and transportation might that is a thing any other major power has to consider, of course their main power is political and the ability to use all the other major powers to stop any other, but they do have military power to back their positions.
     
    ChoTimberwolf likes this.