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You want more NA2?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by ObviousGray, Apr 1, 2019.

?

Would you like to see more NA2?

  1. Why not?

  2. Depends

  3. No, its too crowded

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Technically that's Druze, who are the biggest and baddest submondo mafia out there. They could do with a bit of expansion to their roster, though I'm worried they'd lose the flavor.
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Nope. In the Infinity setting, you're wrong. StarCo is about as "good guy" as you can get in the setting.
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  3. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    Hardly. They're Nomad troopers, which is already pretty dark (ex. Jaguars). Also, just because the propaganda article tells you they're the good guys doesn't mean anything. Everyone is a good guy if all you read is the articles at face value.
    History tells us over and over: there is no restraint among mercenaries, there is nothing so low they wouldn't do. Even pretend mercenaries quickly take up the usual mercenary pursuits of taking and doing whatever they want when deployed.
     
  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    No, the game is pretty explicit that Yu Jing and the Combined Army, as factions, are villains. But you're making an argument from ignorance - just because there is propaganda saying that group x is a bunch of good guys, doesn't mean that group x isn't a bunch of good guys. Even good guys need a PR man.

    To be frank, that doesn't apply in Infinity - that's not how StarCo is meant to be portrayed, and "mercenaries are always evil" is such an absolute that it isn't true in the real world, let alone in this fictional one that CB has created.
     
  5. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I'd like another submondo faction outside Druze, sure. That'd be cool. Also maybe another minor nation like JSA? We have four merc companies now, think that's pretty good and covered.
     
  6. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    While true on the face of it, when you start thinking through the implications of the lore, Nomads are right there up with them.
    Well, I'd actually agree with you that mercenaries are not always evil, at least not in the traditional sense of the word evil. And yes, absolutes don't work.
    But any mercenary group is in it for the money, and the troops will do anything. Mercenary groups at their core have the rot, because they are in the end all about the money.
    They fight for money, they kill for money, and that has a corrosive effect. Only in capitalist films are mercenaries ever good guys. Even if they start as (some sort of - they are still fighting for money) good guys, they will quickly spiral into war crimes.
     
  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    "Thinking through the implications of the lore" could result in any of the major powers being absolutely monstrous if you work from the precept that anything unknown can be filled in with your own biases. Like... what happened to all the SEA Muslims that should be in PanO? Genocided a la the Armenians?

    Again, an absolute. By analogy under your logic, anyone who works for a paycheck of any sort is subjected to that same "corrosive effect."
     
  8. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    I was under the impression the druze were a legit private outfit, licensed and bonded by O12 or some such
    Now the shit they get up to within the fog of war is anybody's business

    When I say submondo, I mean actual submondo. Criminal syndicates like the Struktura and Svengali or literal terrorists like Equinox or Eco-Aktion, or even pirates, the unsanctioned kind
     
  9. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    "The Druze Society is probably the most powerful criminal organization within Submondo, the international mafia entity that reaches all across the Human Sphere. The unmeasured use of unparalleled violence and their keen sense for business, reaching success with their companies used as a front to cover their illegal activities are the factors that have taken them to the top of Submondo’s inner circle."

    My emphasis.

    https://www.infinitythegame.com/blog/item/446-druze-bayram-security
     
    Hecaton and Brother Smoke like this.
  10. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Yeah, DBS is one of the seemingly legit (though even that is questionable) corporations fronting for the Druze society as a whole.
     
  11. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    No, because we've had multiple different indications that's not what happened. Although, it cannot be fully ruled out. However, Nomads case is nowhere near so ambiguous. As I have elaborated upon in other threads, so I won't repeat it here.
    Yes and no. Capitalism indeed has a corrosive effect on individuals, but in this case, the paycheck usually isn't for willy-nilly killing people. Mercenaries learn quickly that in warzones there is little oversight. They are already willing to kill for no reason other than a paycheck and perhaps enjoyment. Life can be short and deadly; why not enjoy yourself and make sure you get some extra cash from the mission? This is nothing new or surprising. This effect happens in proper armies where soldiers are either forced via conscription or have actual ideals why they are fighting. Mercenaries are already several steps along the path by their very nature.
     
  12. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    Ah, I see, I wasn't aware the druze operated outside of their merc boundaries
     
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  13. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    They appear as Villians in TRPG IIRC, having rules for using civvies as a human shield and likely to involve on illegal businesses like drugs, slave trading..

    We could see another, minor Submondo originated NA2 but Druze is the boss now. Moreso currently I don't see any clues in book.

    Dashat did came out of nowhere, though.
     
    Xeurian likes this.
  14. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I was a soldier Sailor for a paycheck.

    Hell, my day job was threatening the world with nuclear destruction.

    Nice to know you think I'm a War Criminal. :rage::imp::rage:
     
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  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    No, we haven't, because the likely answer is that Gutier just didn't know about the Muslim population in Malaysia and Indonesia.

    Simply stating something doesn't make it true. Also, "I play ALEPH and so the real evil faction is Nomads" means I'm gonna need some more evidence.

    Very few mercenaries have ever been hired to willy-nilly kill people.

    Depends, StarCo definitely has oversight, since they care so much about following the future version of the Geneva Convention.

    Yeah this is all stuff you're saying that has no particular basis in fact.
     
  16. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    More to the point, most of StarCo's contracts are with people who demand strict adherence to the Conventions and their own Rules of Engagement. That is explicit in StarCo's fluff.

    For that matter, read Uprising pg73:
    The commentary then goes on to page 74 to talk about how Bureau Aegis thoroughly vets any mercenary group that would work for it, and how even a rumor of violating these rules would prevent StarCo from getting Bureau Aegis contracts.

    StarCo might take money to carry guns to keep you safe, but they won't start a fight. You can take it to any bank in the universe that they will finish any fight someone wants to start with them, however!
     
  17. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    All I could do is the same you're doing, guess.
    Not that it matters too much, but before I had the lore books, I actually purchased quite a few of Nomad items. Then I got N3 and just couldn't stomach the Nomad lore so I sold it all off.

    I don't think Nomads are the real evil faction because I play Aleph; I think it because it's in their lore. And completely unrelated to Aleph.
    Oh, and by the way, I don't say Aleph wouldn't commit atrocities; what I'm objecting is Aleph committing stupid atrocities that serve no purpose.
    Hired to actually go out and willy-nilly kill people, yeah, it depends. However, killing and pillaging is quite often the result of deployment of mercenaries.
    I was gonna say "name me an army and a war in which no warcrimes were committed", but I'm tired of you just saying contrary positions and me trying to inject some historical sense. Think what you will. I don't care.

    @Section9
    The very text you quoted, middle of last paragraph (emphasis mine):
    However, Juan Sarmiento preferred to abandon this sector of the market, at least publically, and aim for a different one that, in the long term, is just as profitable, but much more respectable.
    Take it as you will. I will admit that StarCo as a mercenary company are on the light side of mercenaries spectrum. But I stand by my assertion that mercenary companies always end up operating on the atrocity side of things.

    In any case, this will be my last post on this subject for now, so I guess you can proclaim victory.
     
  18. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Then we are two sides of the same coin, for me Aleph is the biggest threat for the human sphere who can manipulate everything.
     
  19. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    That may sound harsh but I don't really see the difference between professionnal soldiers and merc. The employer maybe ? What when it's a state that emploies merc companies ? Both seem capable of committing crimes or do a perfectly legitimate job protecting civilians and so on ...

    Jean Jaures, a french politic who was assinated just before WWI, was against professionnal armies for that kind of reason. Imho that if random citizens of a country were drafted for any military operation, citizens would feel more concerned and there would probably be less military interventions ... my 2 cents on the topic.

    In the end, Obi Wan was right :

    [​IMG]


    How is Yu jing evil ? Because they have a state police and don't tolerate that a minority differs from what is acceptable to the eyes of the majority and the state party ? Don't many authoritarian states have state police and political prisoners ? Are they inherently evil ? As a convinced democrat I am tempted to say so. But what if an authoritarian regim is more efficient to take actions against climate change for exemple ? Or to ensure that there is less wealth difference between the rich and the poor ?

    These questions and topics are probably more complicated than just black and white. Reality is a complicated thing. And so is Infinity lore.
     
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  20. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    I asked about NA2, suddenly I found the thread became a hall of politics.

    Talk about derailment!