That's exactly my thoughts. It's "only" 1 die, and actually things like cheerleaders in Suppresive Fire will make Teutons life difficult (couple it with a repeater/REM nearby and even standard HD and he's in trouble). Regarding calculator: single Alguasile with a combi has a 27% chance of wounding Teuton. Remember that Teuton dodges so Alguasile will never suffer a wound in return! (which I think is quite important to remember, dodge is not an offenisve ARO!) Plus what did happenend to an old saying "WB are easy to kill, just flank them and shoot them in the back" ? Which should be quite easy as Teuton really want to advance deep into enemy's DZ and be flanked by all kind of stuff (primarly SK infiltrating on roof-tops).
lol at janzerker out of nowhere to spit the same tired "this is what you have and you'll like it" arguments we've heard forever
The existing Knights are well equipped elite soldiers, handing them a Chainrifle and pointing them at the enemy should probably never happen. Sure Myrmidions do it for some reason but they're Aleph and Aleph gets nice things. The full blown Monastery Order Knights should always display their training with guns to some extent as well as keep PanO HI BS values. Dropping Teutons to BS13 is already questionable imho. I'd much rather see them have Forward Deployment, Limited Camoflague and different weapon loadouts as well as DA/EXP CCWs on every Profile. Sure Eclipse would be nice, but who are we kidding, that's too easy. Not against it but I'd rule it out as a possible option. I wouldn't be against another knightly rookie section like Magisters or CR/Nanopulser+MSG/LSG dudes. If I had to design a new Knight it would be comparatively shite an focused at long Range Combat with C+ and MSR and about CC18. @barakiel what's not to like about Magisters? 22 for a full blown HI Warband/Daylami is seriously nice. Sure, lacks the DTW but LSG+PZF is a good tradeoff if you're also dodging on 17s. Gotta admit I have about zero experience with them in Vanilla, however unleashing them in midfield is pretty devastating. Cranes anyone? They actually have that DA CCW thing and MA3 to make it work.
As per the Aquila Guard motto, Pano must be the first in everything. Besides, Yu Jing is not the faction of HI. Its the faction of salt and perpetual second place. :P On a more serious note, Pano getting a 4th sectorial should not prevent broken units from being fixed. Teutons are pretty worthless right now and are almost never played by anyone. Eciu is certainly over doing it, but Teutons are pretty much a never take unit right now.
This whole post reeks of "my unit is balanced because it's not quite as good as the best unit at each of these things individually."
Yeah, it's strange to me how people forget the Crane can actually get decent odds at killing something in CC. Granted, that's probably because it also generally packs two Nanopulsers and either a MULTI-Rifle or a Spitfire, so... it generally fares better shooting that thing that requires a good deading instead of stabbing it. Unless you take the AHD profile, at which point I can totally see someone Immobilising a target on one order, stabbing it on the next. TL;DR: CC is not the Cranes greatest strength, but... it's something I sure don't complain about and am occasionally really glad it's there. Kinda like decent pistols or the Breakers on a ZuYong. As for the main post topic... Yeah, I'll echo the ''6-2 MOV won't be a thing'' statement. It's pretty clear that unless you want your Teutons to start turning into cyborgs on such a level they end up being justifiable to have STR instead o Wounds... that's not gonna happen. Hyperdinamics Lv3 is still asking for a ''new'' skill to appear ( Or in this case, a new level of a skill. ) for this idea to be justified. That, and I think dodging on 23 is a tad bit excessive. Just a smidge, mostly due to that expanded 17+ crit window ( 20% chance for a crit dodge, basically. ). Now I understand the idea of having it be a way of making it immune to things like mines and DTW, and I can sort of respect that idea. But I do genuinely believe a third HyperDynamics level is a bit excessive for that. LV2 shoudl suffice perfectly IMO. You still auto-succeed against DTWs fired from your front and against detonating mines/perimeter weapons, but as someone mentioned the old method of ''shoot the warband in the back'', it'd at least make it so DTWs have a potential chance to hit you if they shot you in the back ( Which seems fair, since it'd be a reward for them doing some good positioning/exploiting your poorer positioning. Which would be fair IMO. ). Now, making it move from Frenzy into Impetous seems like an interesting choice, and doesn't step on the Magisters toes in Vanilla TOO much ( Since with this new 'Teuton' it'd at least let you volunteer not to use that order, while the Magister would ask a Regular order for it's calmness. ). On the topic of the Eclipse nade... I approve. Why? While I might be firmly on the ''PanO should not get Smoke Grenades'' side of the spectrum, for a couple of reasons ( Biggest one being I just thing that it's a bit too low of the technological spectrum to fit into that ''high-tech hyperpower'' theme of PanO. My lesser reason is that PanO ''kinda'' has the greatest amount of MSV2+ units: two units with MSV2 on all profiles, some Kamau and Order Sergeant profiles with it, and the Aquila for MSV3, though I do realize ALEPH might actually have just as many MSV2+ units if not more than PanO and get Smoke, I'm still not 100% sold on the idea of giving the highest Ballistic Skill faction the ability to add Smoke+Visor shenanigans to that. Still, that is my lesser reason, and it's the one I feel carries less weight. ). Eclipse Grenades now... well, high-tech visual obstruction grenades that even prevent the highest grade visors vision through them seems pretty fitting for a ''high-tech hyperpower'', so honestly, I would not be against seeing not just an Eclipse LGL, but actual Eclipse Grenades crop up some more in PanO. Now, on the topic of the Chain Rifle... IDK, it just feels thematically too... cheap for PanO. A technological hyperpower resorting to cheap, mass production low tech weaponry. I'd say the Pulzar at least is a far more interesting weapon option that fits the theme better, instead of the Chain Rifle. Plus, I see no issue with this being a premium WB that it'd get a DTW that's a bit fancier than the Chain Rifle. Even something like a HFT would be IMO more welcome than a Chain Rifle. Now, on the topic of the EXP+AP CCW... I'm not sold on the AP part. Though if you do want the dual-wielding swords idea... I mean... having Dual Wield and an EXP CCW alongside an AP CCW would be an option. Maybe a Boarding Shotgun profile would be neat as well? Maybe? Potentially? Also, I dunno why, but I feel like a pistol is missing here. Since even a lowly basic Pistol still allows you to at least attempt a FtF roll that isn't a Dodge. I'd just like that to be there as an option. Maybe even get a fancier pistol too, like a Breaker pistol. P.S.: Can I just say that it's pretty damn stupid IMO that knights have such a low AVA in Vanilla ( Only Father Knights get to be taken in groups larger than one... in groups of two. ). I mean... at least Teutons and Magisters should also get AVA 2. EDIT: And since we're on this train of premium HI warband thought... V:Dogged?
Frankly I would prefer to see the profile stay similar and focus on the gear and skills. Toss natural born warrior to give a PanO unit the ability to engage melee experts and other warbands aswell as give the usual subskills. Look at giving him eclipse smoke to allow him to engage properly. Give him weapons that befit a jungle fighter like combi+light flamer or a full on heavy flamethrower or even a jungle terrain auxbot option. Make him full impetuous instead of frenzy. Perhaps an option to link with Father Knights or perhaps a Teutonic character.
I can also add that Teutons order batteries cost ~13 pts and not 5 pts like in some factions :P As basicly Tetuons is prices from Domaru/Shikami and thought to be under stellar performance of Yu-Jing cat then yes, there's a lot of "he's still "worst" or "limited version" of X".
http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Hyper-Dynamics No this skill is already "created", it's just not used by anyone (but if you ever wanted you can give it to your spec-op). So same chance as Sin-Eater of TR drone critting you back (which is better as not only they had survived but also did a wound to you without using orders). So Pulzar ? As mentioned, AP could go away. Thought that it's a bit too similar to Magisters. Well I wanted Teutons to be around ~30pts, not 40 pts but if this is needed then it's best way.
To her armour allowing more mobility, not from it speeding her up. The closest thing to a 'human' in the game with a 6" first MOV is the Oznat, and she's a Morat. Everything else is so cyborged up it has STR (Chimera), is full-on alien or biomechanical (Umbras, Ikadrons etc.) or full-on superhuman (Tarik, assorted Recreations).
Oh wow. Ya learn something new everyday. Yes, Pulzar. Dogged can up a units price like that? Yikes. True. At that point, Teutons would be Daddy Magisters, or Magisters would end up being Baby Teutons.
Ok, my mistake. Dont remember how much exactly dogged was but if 2nd wound is around 10 pts (or was before OSS came) then dogged might be around 4 pts alone.
I'm actually ok with Teutons' set of skills. What I'd like to see is the complete rework of weapon loadouts. Impetous, CC 23, BS 13, Berserk, Jungle Terrain, Religious Troop, Duo EXP CCW, Heavy Pistol on all loadouts - SMG, HFT, Grenades - SMG, HFT, Eclipse Grenades - Vulcan Shotgun, Eclipse Grenades - Combi Rifle, LRL
To annoy people fielding 2W+NWI HI? :P It's probably a leftover from my earlier ideas. Standard Pistol would be just fine.
