1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra PolĂ­tica de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Xenotech

Discussion in 'ITS' started by Arkhos94, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    4,212
    Ignoring Dodge for a moment.

    It would trigger any Targetless BS Attack or any variety Deploy [X] ARO. These only require an Active Trooper within LOF.
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,137
    Likes Received:
    3,974
    Ah. I suppose you can use them to gain the +1 burst bonus for a G: Synch in CC tho, that's what I remember doing.

    Regardless, there's absolutely no basis for your earlier change of "enemy" in the "dodge" requirements. You can dodge upon merely seeing someone perform a short skill.
     
  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,137
    Likes Received:
    3,974
    Actually, it looks like there's an FAQ entry that removed the requirement of attack from Dodge.
     
    Mask and meikyoushisui like this.
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    4,212
    Technically that requires the Engaged state. Engaged requires Hostile Troopers to be in B2B. I'm not certain that you can be Engaged with a Neutral.

    And that FAQ makes it clear that the active Trooper doesn't need to have declared an attack. It doesn't clear up whether the active Trooper must be able to declare attacks (ie whether it's you can Dodge if you have LOF to any active Trooper or any active Hostile). Completely accept that I have no firm basis for reading Dodge as active Hostile rather than active Trooper. I just think it works better.
     
  5. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    380
    CivEvac
    • While in this state, a Civilian doesn't provide any MOD when engaged in CC.
     
    emperorsaistone and inane.imp like this.
  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    4,212
    You can Civevac Friendly/Hostile Civilians (Designated Targets) which can be Engaged.
     
  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,137
    Likes Received:
    3,974
    I don't even know what this passage means. Civilians don't have Martial Arts or whatever.
     
  8. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    Really? What's the rule for more then one model in an CC?
     
    ijw likes this.
  9. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    9,925
    Plus the big yellow box on the Civilian Rules page:

    REMEMBER
    As Civilians are considered Neutral models, being in base to base contact with them doesn't activate the Engaged state (see Infinity N3).
     
    meikyoushisui and inane.imp like this.
  10. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    4,212
    More importantly: do they trigger Dodge AROs?
     
  11. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    9,925
    That's already been covered up-thread, hasn't it? You can Dodge even if you don't get attacked.
     
  12. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    Messages:
    3,397
    Likes Received:
    4,879
    dodging doesnt help much when you give every single MSV2 troop with access to smoke the unlimited and unmitigated abillity top shoot every single unit in the game outside of other MSV2+ with no fear of damage back.

    How are TAGs and HI supposed to cope with an agmea ML that they cant even shoot back?

    It really is an un-thought out interaction
     
  13. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    4,212
    Attacker implies that an attack is possible even if it hasn't occurred yet. So you can read that FAQ as, effectively, "Attacker = active Hostile" not "Attacker = active Trooper". Since a Neutral Troopers can not, by definition, be an attacker.

    But if you want to settle it that "You can Dodge if you have LOF to an Active Trooper" it's certainly an answer.
     
  14. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    725
    Yeah, the point is more that that's not OK...
     
    inane.imp likes this.
  15. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    380
    You understand the issue though right? the whole argument about the dodging is entirely secondary.

    The real issue is that if I link the Xenotech to my Marut who is standing in smoke while the Xenotech is outside the smoke, then everytime my Marut activates I can force enemies to declare AROs against a neutral model they can't effect, then shoot them unopposed, they cannot shoot me at -6 as normal, they cannot shoot me at all, sixth sense is no protection, they can dodge, and that's all.

    The argument about dodge is an attempt to reconcile the negative play aspects this presents by suggesting RAW the xenotech shouldn't prompt an ARO. I'd rather just ignore the RAW argument all together and skip right to, I'll be much happier playing the game if xenotechs don't prompt AROs and will advocate for that as a houserule.
     
    wendigo, Mask, theradrussian and 3 others like this.
  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    4,212
    I didn't say it was 'a good answer'. ;)
     
  17. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    9,925
    Me neither.
     
  18. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    4,212
    Yeah, but I kinda want Xenotech to allow me to drop Deployables/Smoke without risk.

    So I kinda like "Xenotech cause AROs; Dodge AROs are only valid vs Active Hostiles". It limits the bad interactions significantly.

    I'd be ok with Xenotechs don't trigger AROs at all though.
     
  19. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    4,212
    But it's not a necessary answer either: nothing in the rules means Dodge is valid vs all active troopers rather than just active Hostiles.
     
  20. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    725
    I think the correct answer is actually:

    No, Xenotechs' don't provoke AROs - because they do not meet the definition of Troopers (part of which is that they are capable of both declaring and receiving attacks, which neutral models like Xenotechs are not) and only Troopers provoke AROs unless some sort of special equipment is involved per the ARO rules.

    I'd like to have that confirmed though.

    @ijw ?
     
    inane.imp likes this.