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Wu Ming + Brawler Haris?

Discussion in 'Ikari Company' started by Knauf, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    What is your opinion on this Haris? The Brawler LT is my go-to LT for Ikari and I figured the Chain Rifle Wu Ming makes for a solid bodyguard and the HRL can leverage the additional burst quite well.

    Have you tried anything similar before and would you prefer a different loadout?


    Ikari Company
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Haris) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    WÚ MÍNG Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33)

    2 SWC | 74 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #1 Knauf, Mar 4, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
    oldGregg likes this.
  2. Paperclip

    Paperclip Member

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    I normally go for either the doctor or the msv2 sniper while my Lt stays with the core. But if I can spare the swc, I will have one of the keisotsus be the Lt.
     
    Knauf likes this.
  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    The WM is a good guard for the Lt. for sure and I think needed. So far every time I play Ikari, my opponent goes right for my Lt. there's only two options to choose from, but really only one. Of the second WM, i guess it depends on the mission or who you are going against. I tend to like the 5 burst HMG. 3 Burst HRL is good but better in 5-man with +3 to BS.

    Another one to consider is the Tanko+Brawler. However it doesn't save many points. Compared to the the example above. Also you don't need to worry about your WM running off to get into CC if the link breaks.

    [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2
    TANKŌ (Fireteam: Haris) Blitzen, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 24)
    TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)
    BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)

    2 SWC | 72 Points
     
    #3 Space Ranger, Mar 4, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
    Knauf likes this.
  4. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    What about the Combi Rifle + E/Mitter, Antipersonnel Mines profile?

    It's a bit more defensively oriented than the HRL, but putting down one (or three) mine(s) in your backfield to cover your LT does sound interesting. The E/Mitter is not terrible either, when you are faced with a rambo unit that needs to be stopped. This also saves you 2 SCW that can be invested otherwise.


    Ikari Company
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + E/Mitter, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Haris) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)

    0 SWC | 73 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #4 Knauf, Mar 4, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  5. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I think it just depends on the mission. If you have a mission that requires moving and taking area, that link is fantastic. Whole team moves, lay a mine and repeat. If it's a kill the data tracker or HVT, then take the Multi-Rifle+LGL to lob grenades on it. But that base can always be the Lt.+Chain Rifle WM.
     
    Knauf likes this.
  6. KestrelM1

    KestrelM1 Well-Known Member

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    Wu Ming Haris are incredibly versatile and can accomplish a huge variety of missions due to the sheer number of useful loadouts you can swap between. What's considered the "best" will vary from mission to mission and personal preference, but here's a couple of my favorites:

    WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Haris) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    WÚ MÍNG HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 39)
    BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    3.5 SWC | 92 Points

    No-nonsense firepower, with a personal bodyguard to safeguard the fireteam and engage enemies that get within the HMG/Sniper dead zone. Sniper for targets with visual mods, HMG for those without. Heavy on SWC, but there's virtually nothing this team can't tackle in a gunfight.

    WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Haris) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    WÚ MÍNG Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33)
    WÚ MÍNG (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
    2 SWC | 89 Points

    The specialist escort. Great for busting into the midfield and defending yourself once you're there, less reliant on the Haris profile to safeguard the other two, as they can both protect themselves at various rangebands. The Wu Ming FO can be a Brawler specialist instead if you're looking to save on points.

    WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Haris) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    WÚ MÍNG MULTI Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    0 SWC | 89 Points

    The no-SWC special. Though it lacks in reach, this team carries an absolutely silly amount of special ammo and tricks for a whopping 0 SWC, leaving plenty of space left over for other SWC-heavy options. The LGL on the Wu Ming can do a lot of hurt when paired with a FO Ninja, and is one of the more terrifying fireteam leader options provided you can get within 16".

    Those are just 3 of my favorites, there are a ton of options to choose from and nearly anything in any of these teams could be modified to suit the user's preference. Looking forward to seeing what other teams people come up with.
     
    oldGregg and Knauf like this.
  7. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] Ikari Company──────────────────────────────────────────────────[​IMG]3 [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Haris) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)[​IMG] WÚ MÍNG HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 39)[​IMG] BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) 2 SWC | 80 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    I love this set-up; it has a minimum B4 weapon in every range band, a large direct template, and a shotgun. The Lt can be swapped for any other profile, but I prefer this cheaper option. Let's face it, the ikari lieutenant has one of the shortest life expectancies in the game....
     
    Space Ranger and Knauf like this.
  8. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to try this team next time myself. I had the below last week and it got chewed up by Bran Do Castro in no time.

    Ikari Company
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    TANKŌ (Fireteam: Haris) Blitzen, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 24)

    2 SWC | 68 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  9. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
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    brawler Lt is suicide against good player, you have to pay the 1 SWC keisotsu tax

    as for WM haris I go with this:

    Ikari Company
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Haris) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    WÚ MÍNG HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 39)
    BRAWLER Doctor (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)

    2 SWC | 84 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    sadly WM don't have cubes :/
     
  10. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Would you mind elaborating a bit?
     
  11. Musterkrux

    Musterkrux Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, I run a Brawler Lt exclusively in Ikari and I've never had the Brawler die before their time.

    I run a link of Tanko ML, 3x Keisotsu (potentially one with a second ML) and a Brawler Lt. The link sits at the back of the table as an order battery with some strong ARO presence and I'm yet to see someone have a successful early run at them. If I'm really paranoid, I run a second vanilla Brawler as a solo piece and hide them somewhere else on the table.

    My preferred WuMing Haris is: HMG, Chain Rifle (Haris) and Brawler AHD. 17/0.5 for an AHD specialist is amazing for the price.

    I don't like the Doc/Eng Brawler options for several reasons:

    1. At WIP 12 you're failing a lot of Doc rolls.
    2. WuMing don't have cubes, so you can't re-roll those failed WIP rolls.
    3. Tokusetsu Butai Doc is WIP 13 and 6 points cheaper.
     
  12. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
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    seriously wip 12 or 13 is the same

    I run him mostly for the light shotgun ARO (B2 BS18 is strong) and being specialist, the engineer is also okay, I don't run the AHD anymore because KHD are everywhere and anyway I prefer hacking ppl with SMG or HMG

    Brawler lt in haris is suicide because he's weak and gonna die turn one, in core it's more secure because of SSN2 but the keisotsu lt is more secure and cheaper. Also if you take the brawler lt in core you can't put in the MSR MSV2 which is bad

    the only way I see me playing him is alongside a bashi and 3 holo decoy ... may be
     
  13. Musterkrux

    Musterkrux Well-Known Member

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    I mean, categorically, 12 and 13 are not the same but I get what you're saying, it's close enough. What I would say is that WIP13 for 14 points is much better than WIP12 for 20 points.

    Agree, Brawler Lt in Haris is suicide. I don't think anyone has disagreed with you here.

    I don't think the Keisotsu Lt is actually cheaper, because that 1 SWC tax is killer in Ikari. If you run a Core with Tanko ML (because everyone does), an MSV Brawler Sniper, Keisotsu Lt, and a WuMing HMG in the Haris, that's all 6 of your SWC.

    I swear by the RuiShi (1.5 SWC) and it feels like you're trading it for the Brawler MSV. With Yuan Yuans dropping smoke in the midfield, the RuiShi is really good at digging out models that a Brawler MSV MSR wouldn't have any line on. With Assisted Fire (which you have access to if you take an EVO remote to help guide the Yuan Yuans down), he's hitting basically anyone in the game on 15's and 4 dice, whereas a Brawler probably tops out at 12's on 3 dice. There's ARO to consider, of course but I personally feel like the statement: "you can't put in the MSR MSV2 which is bad" isn't entirely true.

    Anyways, good to see there's a lot of different ways to play the WuMing Haris and compose Ikari lists. Shows that it's a healthy sectorial and not a mono-build.
     
    East of Irem likes this.
  14. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
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    I agree (but the brawler sniper is hitting on 15 on 3 dice at cover in core and 18 on crazy warband :p)
    Ikari is not very diverse but I try not to play the obvious yuan²/RuiShui/EVO
    full offense with 12pts bashi, desperados with dual ass. pistols and WM HMG can just kill stuff as easy as the ruishi

    I'm trying this those days:
    FULL OFFENSE
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3
    TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)
    BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    KEISOTSU Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 9)
    KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
    BASHI BAZOUK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    DESPERADO Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / 2 Assault Pistols, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    DESPERADO Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / 2 Assault Pistols, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]3
    WÚ MÍNG HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 39)
    WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Haris) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    BRAWLER Doctor (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    KRAKOT RENEGADE Submachine Gun, Chest Mine / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 9)
    YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 9)
    LIBERTO Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 8)
    WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #14 Sangarn, Mar 18, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
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  15. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    I have a soft spot for Wu Ming HRL + Wu Ming Haris + Brawler AHD.

    The overall package is as cheap as it gets while still having a specialist and a good firepower mix. The HRL is a riskier firepower element than a HMG but not by as much as you'd think (lower chance of winning a F2F but more dangerous ammunition by a solid margin if you do) and it packs a shotgun into the link for QCB action, valuable in both ARO and in general with the easy smoke-heavy game Ikari plays.

    Wouldn't ever begrudge someone playing the HMG, it's solid and obvious, but very nearly paying for another yuan yuan has always felt pretty worth it to me.

    It's interesting to see someone suggest not taking a brawler LT on the grounds that it's 'suicide' against a good player. Sounds a lot to me like lack of confidence. If you can't protect a core-linked model with no incentive to be placed anywhere but the safest spot you can find while surrounded by other core-linked short- and long-ranged ARO elements, maybe you weren't crash hot to win that game to begin with.
     
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  16. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
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    the subject is Brawler lt in haris we all agree that he's safe in core.
     
  17. East of Irem

    East of Irem Well-Known Member

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    I run brawler Lt frequently outside of any link and it can work fine. Minelayer, holo1 and crazy koala are in faction and highly playable Lt protection. If worried about impersonators you can often body block in combination with those options...
    I prefer to put a brawler specialist my haris teams. Hacker is the cheapest and I like to keep it cheap, tanko haris is my flavour of the month. When building a wu ming haris I usually regret removing a wu ming for a brawler, the trio of wu ming are really good.
     
  18. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
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    Minelayer:
    Libertos 1 SWC
    Le muet 42 pts
    Al fasid 45 pts

    Crazy Koala: only yojimbo

    those two are not good options, only holo is okay

    Body block doesn't work against smoke + close combat AND boarding shotguns
    you have to body block AND have a Al fasid/Le muet ... so it cost you a lot: better pay the SWC tax or put him inside a SSN2 fireteam
    also one mine is less than 50% to kill VS impersonator dodging, actually it's only 33% to kill
    SSN2 + shell game is the only effective way to counter impersonator in Ikari
    SSN2 + brawler lt in fireteam is vulnerable to smoke + cc

    that's just my opinion, I don't want to say you all are wrong guys ^^
    also I'm speaking about a game VS a experienced player
     
  19. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    I dunno about anyone else, but I usually go into a game with a plan for when (not if) I'm in Loss of Lieutenant. Granted, I don't want it to happen, but it's best to be prepared. And, as a slightly mitigating effect, if I have a new specialist Lt by turn 3, that has won me games with the 1 extra order to press buttons...
     
  20. East of Irem

    East of Irem Well-Known Member

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    I also consider le muet sub optimal, but have a lot of time for the others.

    As for the aros clearly nothing can be guaranteed protection, if it was there's no game. Imo it's more a question of what risks you are prepared to suffer, applying aro pressure. Body block and force the opposition to spend 5 orders on his LT kill run rather than 3 might give you the game in the long run.

    If I run up against tohaa, invincible, varuna, yu jing(camo Lt) or anyone who deploys 2 rifle line troopers in the back I instantly have to abandon game plans that involve causing lol. Building around making that happen isn't something I see in my meta any more. Though with the growing popularity of OSS it might become a prevalent counter.
     
    Musterkrux likes this.