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Wich is your favorite HI Pain Train and why?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by MATRAKA14, Dec 6, 2018.

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Wich is your favourite pure HI link team?

  1. VETERAN KAZAKS

    9 vote(s)
    8.6%
  2. MOBILE BRIGADA

    5 vote(s)
    4.8%
  3. JANISSARIES

    7 vote(s)
    6.7%
  4. ORC TROOPS (varuna, neoterra, acontecimento)

    4 vote(s)
    3.8%
  5. SURYAT Assault Heavy Infantry

    5 vote(s)
    4.8%
  6. RIOR GRRLS

    24 vote(s)
    22.9%
  7. THE HOLLOW MEN, Tactical assault team

    20 vote(s)
    19.0%
  8. WÚ MÍNG Assault corps (Those Without Name)

    12 vote(s)
    11.4%
  9. DOMARU Butai

    5 vote(s)
    4.8%
  10. Holy Order of HOSPITALLER KNIGHTS of Saint John of Skovorodino

    4 vote(s)
    3.8%
  11. MAGISTER KNIGHTS

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Sacred Military Order of TEUTONIC KNIGHTS

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  13. SHÀNG JÍ INVINCIBLES

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  14. ZÚYONG Invincibles, Terra-Cotta Soldiers

    9 vote(s)
    8.6%
  1. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    I think you're failing to consider a lot of details in a matchup:

    First, hackers need either repeaters or to be close to the models. Second, hacking a model doesn't make his 4 HI buddies go away. Third, IMMing a model doesn't take away the order they generate, nor breaks the fireteam they're in. There's a lot you can do in a setup like that.

    The mission was The Armory. I remember having 3 out of 5 girls IMMed at one point, after I killed his first AHD. Then he tried to IMM a fourth (it was my active turn) and I declared reset with the whole link, beating him in FTF AND passing the reset rolls with the 3 other girls. That meant I ended my turn with all 5 riots ready to roll.

    My oponent meanwhile had to choose between spending his 6 orders left on his hacker that was on the other side of the table to move up, hack my girls and do nothing as I had 3 of them inside the objective room, or move his Fiday through my AROs to try and kill them off the room. Those were his two options in that game because anything else he was dead. I had killed his other striking models, and both his infiltrating specialists.

    He choose to move the fiday and ended up unable to kill all 3 Riot Grrls that were inside the room, and I won the game.

    This is purely anecdotal, but in that game I really didn't need a KHD. Sure, having one would have helped, but I didn't need it.
     
  2. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, your mate just screwed up and doesn't know what he's doing with the hackers. You don't immobilise. You isolate. You can't reset out of that and it breaks your link up, and until you march an engineer up the table your models are cactus for any offensive manouveres and it screws with your order pool at the same time and acts as a drain.

    The only reason you got away without the KHD is because your opponent was making unforced errors.

    We're having this exact discussion over on the Yu Jing forums right now. Tell him he's supposed to use the Oblivion program next time, it'll go alot better for him.
     
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  3. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Do you? An isolated model can still drop into suppressive fire, it can still ARO, it can still contest a zone. Sure, it breaks the link and takes away an order from your oponent, but that's not all there is to it.

    I think simplifying things into "Do this" or "do that" like they're perfect solutions to any problem is really underselling a lot. It's all situational. Sometimes you want to bleed orders out, but sometimes you want that HI to stand still so you can shoot it down or complete an objective on it. It's too many variables to just say one solution works every single time.
     
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  4. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    yes and no, if your opponent doesn't follow through on this by picking off the isolated model then yes on your next turn you go suppression and the model continues to be a pain in the ass, hacking with out a follow up is nothing more than an annoyance. Additionally given how strong the bonuses the bonuses are for link teams knocking the +3 bs and the 6S:L2 off them makes the team as an assault piece easier to deal with.

    also for context what scenario were you playing? trying to figure out why you didn't have a KHD zero, even without something to kill they are really good and cheap specialist to do mission related shenanigans or cover the flanks of the team with mines.
     
    #84 Tourniquet, Dec 12, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
    theradrussian likes this.
  5. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    I mentioned earlier, it was The Armory. My list was pretty bad, tbh. I think I had this:

    Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    TASKMASTER Lieutenant Red Fury, Pulzar, CrazyKoalas + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 53)
    SALYUT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    AVICENNA Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    MODERATOR Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 11)
    RIOT GRRL (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    RIOT GRRL Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 34)
    RIOT GRRL Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33)
    RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    RIOT GRRL MULTI Rifle, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Looking back now, I could have taken out the Tasky, swapped in a Reverend Custodier, downgraded Avicenna to a Daktaris and added in one or two Zero KHD, but I think that event had another mission that penalized infiltrators so I left the zeroes at home.
     
    Tourniquet likes this.
  6. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's really fair to Triumph to say "if your opponent goes first and kills my order support and lays down excellent overlapping AROs, what do the Yadu do then?" You might as well say "what if my opponent plays better than me," well you'll lose, that's how that works.

    Incidentally though your ability to hold up your opponent, protect your orders and stage a breakout with Yadu is enhanced by their lack of concern re. hacking/EM/Jammers (great form of area control) and their superior positioning because they're further up the board than other HI.
     
  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    No it can't. If you isolate it in ARO, he's done for the turn. You can't spend any further orders on the isolated model. You then attack the vulnerable model in your turn (immobilise it first if necessary).

    Isolating gives you the luxury of picking off the models at your leisure. They can't bum rush you, and they can't really fall back effectively anymore either.

    So can the Immobilised model, and when in a link team as your friend discovered they can essentially reset for free when you ARO a different model in the link team with a hacking attack and they attempt to evade it. So it's a pretty big no brainer to go for the isolation in ARO when attacking a fireteam.

    So can the immobilised model, neither are null states.

    Again, tell your friend to use Oblivion next time it will produce way better results.

    As for your list you swap Avi out for a regular Daktari doctor, as we've already discussed rerolling with cubes actually has a really high success rate anyway. That gives you the points to swap out the moderator paramedic who's really a waste of oxygen for a KHD zero and you've got 4pts to spare, give the Daktari an extra Zond or something. You've essentially got the same list in spirit but now you've actually got a KHD as well as some midfield skirmishing.
     
    #87 Triumph, Dec 13, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  8. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    Not to get too deep into list chat, but in my experience the Zero KHD kinda likes exclusion zones. I frequently deploy him on my opponent's side. If he makes the 9, great, he hides out in a scary place near an enemy repeater and looks like Bran. If he fails, no big deal because he can project himself through Bakunin's cheap and easy repeater network.

    By comparison, nobody's lining up to do that with their Nagas or w/e. Exclusion zones are good for our friends Zero, Grunt, and Daylami.
     
  9. Zano80

    Zano80 Member

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    This is my favourite, 4 hollow with the Remote link, with a duo to support

    Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]7
    HOLLOW MEN Spitfire, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 36)
    HOLLOW MEN MULTI Rifle + Pitcher, Chain-colt / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35)
    HOLLOW MEN Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 37)
    HOLLOW MEN (Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    STEMPLER ZOND FTO (Super-Jump) Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 18)
    KRIZA BORAC Lieutenant HMG / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 54)
    HOLLOW MEN Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 37)

    5 SWC | 247 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  10. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    I like this tactic, but I wouldn't try it in conjunction with a Heavy Infantry link. However, I more often than not run 3 woman riots with 3 woman observance ladies, and in lists like that I can see this working. Thanks.
     
    inane.imp likes this.
  11. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    To be fair there are only few pure all the same HI pain trains or even just all HI that could win the poll. For example Wu Mings become a lot better with the Zhanying, or the MB in StarCo.
    For me the only 5 equal Hi that are on the TOP should be riots and Hollow ( and anyway people pick the hollows with the Remote).
    The others are or mixted with other HI ( Invencible Army, OM) or with Li or too plane to be special ( i'm not saying bad, just plane, a 5 MB pain train has reckt my ass enought times to know it).
     
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  12. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    This poll is not really fair. Even before wildly mixed links becoming standard you wouldn't run, say, pure Domaru in JSA very often. It just wasn't cutting it, unlike, say, non-standard, but practiced no-hafza-jan link.

    These days you probably won't see pure links with no characters unless it's something exceptionally solid, like Grrls.

    Me? I'll just vote Jans because I'm sorta Haqq fanboy and because HI links that I like more are actually mixed. Grrls and Hollows may be better though (although the latter are in sectorial that is not without flaws).

    Do you really run 5 "honest" Zuyong with no characters in it?

    I think a model with reserved TA order can still do that, since that order isn't actually in the pool. But yeah, even if that works, it's an edge case.
     
    #92 Barrogh, Dec 27, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
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  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    @Barrogh Domaru are a tax on the pure goodness that was 5-Haramaki links! #settankofree
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  14. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Re-emphasised for you. Again, Yadu are MI, not HI, so they are invalid for this (ridiculously limited) poll on HI links.
     
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  15. holycannoli

    holycannoli Dancing to Kazak Kalinka

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    Tartary Army Corps
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    VETERAN KAZAK AP HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 47)
    VETERAN KAZAK Boarding Shotgun / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35)
    VETERAN KAZAK Paramedic (MediKit) AP Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    VETERAN KAZAK (X Visor) T2 Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 38)
    VETERAN KAZAK (X Visor) T2 Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 38)

    2 SWC | 197 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    My favorite pain train
     
  16. Manfred_VR

    Manfred_VR Well-Known Member

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    Tai Sheng is at first a Zuyong, not a character.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    It's hilarious how Nomads are again top dog when it comes to HI links xD

    Good job CB!
     
  18. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    That's only true with this unrealistic handicap. In times of mixed links you will barely see complete HI-links despite at Bakunin, Tunguska and IA (where they are mixed out of different HI too).
    The only, who can complain about this are those, who live in the past. *cough* MO *cough* :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
     
  19. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Kudos for good joke ;P
     
  20. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    How has nobody pointed out that Grrls are an invalid choice by the rules of this thread?

    They're not a 5-man HI core.
     
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