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Wich is your favorite HI Pain Train and why?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by MATRAKA14, Dec 6, 2018.

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Wich is your favourite pure HI link team?

  1. VETERAN KAZAKS

    9 vote(s)
    8.6%
  2. MOBILE BRIGADA

    5 vote(s)
    4.8%
  3. JANISSARIES

    7 vote(s)
    6.7%
  4. ORC TROOPS (varuna, neoterra, acontecimento)

    4 vote(s)
    3.8%
  5. SURYAT Assault Heavy Infantry

    5 vote(s)
    4.8%
  6. RIOR GRRLS

    24 vote(s)
    22.9%
  7. THE HOLLOW MEN, Tactical assault team

    20 vote(s)
    19.0%
  8. WÚ MÍNG Assault corps (Those Without Name)

    12 vote(s)
    11.4%
  9. DOMARU Butai

    5 vote(s)
    4.8%
  10. Holy Order of HOSPITALLER KNIGHTS of Saint John of Skovorodino

    4 vote(s)
    3.8%
  11. MAGISTER KNIGHTS

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Sacred Military Order of TEUTONIC KNIGHTS

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  13. SHÀNG JÍ INVINCIBLES

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  14. ZÚYONG Invincibles, Terra-Cotta Soldiers

    9 vote(s)
    8.6%
  1. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    As is your right in this glorious republic of the interwebs. I still think Yadu are pretty great. All I wish was OSS didn't have Characters. How can you be a faceless inhumane robot out to ensure the glorious future of humanity when you have a name?
     
  2. banthafodder

    banthafodder Well-Known Member

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    Riots are more efficient, but Wu Ming take the spot for me.

    A pure old school style pain train in the vein of classic HI like the Brigada and Jann. No frenzy discount. A full two wounds backed up by armor 4 BTS 3. Hell, they don't compromise too much with PH13 among the sea of PH 10-12.

    The vast majority of their cutthroat pricing is due to finely-tuned lean and mean gear selection.

    I don't think we'll see another competitive pain train that is so uncompromising in what it means to be heavy infantry.

    Not until the points system gets a rework and stops encouraging frenzy and dumping stats.
     
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  3. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Well-Known Member

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    The Wu Ming + Zhanying and Domaru + Haramaki/Tanko? Magister + Hospitaller?

    There were lots of mixed links before. Hell, I've even heard the Crane + CG link called the Crane Train pretty often .
     
    #43 meikyoushisui, Dec 7, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  4. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    Mobile Brigada. Because I play a lot of successful games with them. The are may favorites from look and feel. The are powerful but plain normal HI with no fancy stuff. With the minis provided without conversions you can cover all rangebands. Have High Burst, AP, Shock, EXP, Fire ammo. A fearsome ARO piece, a specialist (not so fearsome). And: I can play them fully painted!

    Same goes for my Wu Ming Core (I not mix old and new ones, that is probably unflexibel, but I don´t like the look, so I play them either as old models core or new models core - yes I have 10 ... fully painted too).

    So far I don´t run any other full HI core. My nexts project is Hollow Men :-)
     
  5. Darkvortex87

    Darkvortex87 Combat jump kamikaze

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    then study necromancy and raise it from the dead to beat him again!
     
  6. Bobblehead

    Bobblehead Well-Known Member

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    Im going to be a bit controversial and say Vet Kazaks because its the only team that can ignore hackers and jammers, can only be stopped with firepower and have the advantage in that aspect by being mimetic. That and they have guns for every occasion plus flamers

    A pain train is useless if it cant go where it wants to go
     
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  7. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That is an excellent argument!

    I still really like the IA link (Tai Sheng, Zuyong TacWare Tinbot, Zuyong TacWare HMG, Shang Ji HRL, Haidao KHD) due to more orders, and the DoTanko link for outright threat variety, but I may have to give you a pure Vet Kazaks link as just outright better for doorkicking and not caring about the usual asymmetric attacks.
     
  8. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    So do the yadus, minus the mimetism and the flamethrowers, but with other benefits (NCO, drop bears ...). Similar stats too, but since they don't fit in this poll ...
     
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  9. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
    Warcor

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    I like how magically NCO on single profile and Drop Bears on some profiles are magically equivalent to Mimetism everywhere :joy::joy: not to mention other benefits
     
  10. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    You don't exactly need to have more than 1 or 2 miniature with said profiles. Whereas, you have MULTI rifle on standard profile instead of AP rifle - a bit more potent in active, massively more frightening on reactive. And overall less expensive models for the roughly same BS 13 ARM 3 BTS3 1W+NWI+shock immunity + veteran L1 (granted you do not have SSL2 on every profile, you have it with the fireteam bonuses). I still think there is not that much a difference, they are both unhackable élite pseudo HI.
     
  11. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    Even if that is true (I don't agree but whatever), you still get none with Yadu. Paying so everyone can have Mimetism is so much worth it than not having any.
    *cough*T2+XVisor*cough*
    Look, Vet Kazaks simply aren't good comparisons not because Yadu, but because Vet Kazaks. They get the best parts of most of anything.
     
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  12. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I mean really, the active turn modifier is kind of the key. A Yadu in a link on the active turn will probably beat a Vet Kazak in a link on the ARO, and vice versa. Yes mimetism adds a modifier and a level of reliability, increased like liklihood of extra wounds etc, but as link head to heads are not often optimum vs optimum, I don't think it's wise to suggest who wins in a direct firefight but rather who has the best combination of mobility, flexibility, firepower and resilience.

    And as it happens, I think Yadu work way better as a Haris, but I don't think not having Mimetism makes them automatically worse than Vet Kazaks. E/Marats, Drop Bears, access to strong Hacking, Forward Deployment and a broader variety of heavy weapons (with NCO) is however more flexibility and generally speaking a BS 16 B5 HMG with SSL2 is going to clear through most stuff outside of 5 man linked ODD in optimum range and TO guys with really potent AROs (Swiss, Noctifer etc) who ideally you'd be engaging at a better range than their +3 distance.
     
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  13. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    ... Sure, sure. So scary no modifiers BS16 B5 HMG links. That's why Wildcats full links are so dominating the meta. Mobile Brigada links being banned from tournaments! Oh yes.

    200 points for a 5-person link, I'm quaking in my boots.

    Also, strong Hacking in Yadu link? Best you can go is Shakti, who is decent but hardly "strong" Hacking.
     
  14. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Shakti and an Assault HD with BSg covers all of your offensive hacking needs.

    The Mobile Brigada problem isn't that linked BS 13 HMGs are bad, they aren't, it's that you need five full cost HI without any particularly good specialists that aren't hugely flexible. And actually they aren't that bad, I've used them and they kicked ass, they just aren't especially good either. Yadu are more flexible and have more useful specialists although a five man team isn't something I've tried.

    I know you don't rate the Yadu and that's fine, but plenty of us think they are pretty good, and not without reason.
     
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  15. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    First, as for Assault HD Yadu: it is decent, but I'd hardly call her good. That's my point. Not that it's bad. It's just not particularly good. It's okayish. Don't expect much and you won't be disappointed.

    However, there is a big misconception about what I think about Yadu that seems to impact how people read my posts. Let me try to summarise:
    1) Yadu profile and most loadouts from gameplay perspective: perfectly fine units. Too expensive, but playable.
    2) Bad loadouts: HMG. Too expensive for giving you a very mediocre HMG.
    3) Yadu core link is really bad. It's 160+ points for 5 man mediocre link. I don't rate pure Vet Kazak link that high either, and they're much better than Yadu. However, Vet Kazaks get to enjoy full link with 4 cheap goons or a bit more expensive with varied toolbox. Yadu just have to pay through the nose for eh?
    4) Yadu Haris is okayish. Like, sure, play it, but honestly, you're getting nothing that you couldn't get better with other units in faction.

    My main problem with Yadu is that they bring nothing to the rest of the faction while taking up design slots. The only "meshing" with other units that they is explicit (i.e., they are required for linking Rudra), rather than somehow providing good support to other troops. Their cost is high for a bunch of mediocre functionality better achieved via other units available to Aleph.

    And on top of that, they use E/M weaponry, which I've started to detest on most units now.
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Really!? "their cost is high for a mediocre profile"!?

    Have we really normalized Frenzy on linkable HI that much that a profile that is in a nearly literal sense unhackable basic HI at no cost increase is considered expensive?!
     
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Like, I can straight up tell you Nemo's complaints are off base given that Wu Ming links have been considered competitive for years and Yadu are similar to them in weapon and stat loadouts, with the added benefit of requiring 0 hacking support to be built into the list and are immune to E/M weaponry which anyone who's had the pleasure of being shelled by StarCo or Druze players will tell you is an amazing trait for a link team to pack.

    NCO on your HMG pointman isn't exactly a shitty thing to have either.

    Unlike standard HI links you can also constantly patch up damage suffered by the Yadu with NWI, which is nice when you have one of the best doctors in the game.

    I will also point out that constantly Nemo completely underestimates the ability for Aleph to put cheap shit on the table to bulk a list out. You can pretty easily do a core Yadu link and still have a 14 order list with 16 models on the table.

    Don't forget they're immune to E/M weapons too thanks to veteran which is a strong point given the amount of E/M weaponry and Jammers in the game is continuing to increase.
     
    #57 Triumph, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  18. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    I really like it how Riots and Hollow men are leading the poll right now. I think they're both really good, with Riots in particular being my favorite by sheer effectiveness. I've been running 3 ladies minimum in every Bakunin list I make, and so far they seldom disappoint. Scratch that, they never disappoint.

    Although they aren't as sturdy as other HI and don't have as many weapons (I really miss DTWs on Riots), the fact they're cheap and can negate visual mods or at least bring them down to a more manageable level is really awesome, and I love Hyperdynamics.

    However, I feel that with mixed links becoming more and more popular, very few full HI links will still be used in the future. Although I'd like to see mixed HI links become a thing, kinda like what Domaru and Knights can do at the moment.
     
  19. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
    Warcor

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    Wu Ming come with access to 25 point link filler option and overall much different sectorial options which make them valuable. If you transplated Yadu into some of the other sectorials, they would increase in value.
    While I can appreciate immunity to E/M weaponry and hacking, I disagree on how valuable it is. What you're saying is that in some cases enemy won't be able to autostop you with special equipment - but you're still playing the same mediocre troops all the time.
    That again somewhat ignores what else is in the sectorial. Many of the Lts will want to spend that order themselves, Shukra doesn't give you a Lt Order. Sure, there's some that will be in that link and hence spending it is nice, but again, it's too little.
    This shows how much you misunderstand how this game works. HI with 1W or 2W is equally effective; you only need to heal it once it's taken 2 wounds. At that point, Yadu is dead and unhealable. And sure, healed HI will only be able to take 1W before falling unconscious, but so what? Yadu is still active once it's taken 1W, and healing it is risking killing a perfectly functional trooper (and yes, it has happened to me, plenty of times, with WIP15 and Command Token rerolls). Trying to heal unconscious HI, you're not losing much if you fail.
    I will guarantee you any such list will be filled with stuff that can only look nastily at enemy and will be deconstructed by any half-competent enemy with ridiculous ease. I played enough games to know that list full of Netrods, Lamedhs and Probot Baggage isn't actually any good. More Orders is good, but it is not everything.
    Again with this. Sure, it's nice they're immune, but it still means you're using mediocre troops to ignore something deadly you'll see relatively rarely in a bigger meta (sure, if all you do is play against Emily and Arjunas, then I'm sure Yadus are valuable).

    It's also pretty annoying that there is so much E/M weaponry in game because they're really bad for the health of the game overall.

    Whatever. Go, push Yadu, trick the new players.
     
  20. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    You'll rarely see it...there is so much of it... in back to back sentences...