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Why use Morat, Shasvastii, Sygmaa Units in Onyx?

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Golem2God, Feb 11, 2018.

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Which, if any, of these units should I buy/pick up for Onyx?

  1. Suyats

    8.5%
  2. Malignos

    51.1%
  3. Noctifers

    74.5%
  4. Maakrep

    19.1%
  5. Fraacta

    51.1%
  6. Overdron

    51.1%
  7. Xeodrons

    51.1%
  8. Sphinx

    68.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    As the title suggests, I'm currently building a small Onyx force but have recently though of the above question. What does the other species of the Combined forces bring to the literal table for the Onyx sectorial? I know common knowledge of these units (Maakrep=MSV+camo hunter, Fraacta is our drop-troop, Shas are T.O. camo with the Malignos as specialists, Suyats HI duo, etc..) but any in-depth, "why should I buy/have this unit" information is appreciated. Plus any opinions on how many (AVA) of a certain unit or which loadouts are considered better is welcomed.

    B.T.W. I already have the Rodok box and I'm also planning on buying the Missile Launcher blister soon. My question concerns all the other species units in the sectorial that are included in the above poll. Thank you all for any help/info/opinions you can give me.

    Also are the Batroid T.A.G.s (Overdron & Xeodrons) worth getting as well? Does the Sphinx seem to be a better choice? Which T.A.G. do you think is the best for Onyx in certain missions and just in general?
     
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  2. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Suryats won't really fill any role that makes them worth taking - you're better off just rocking the mini-TAGs if you want heavy stuff.

    Noctifer missile is a good link killer.
     
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  3. Erbent

    Erbent Well-Known Member

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    Noctifers are pure gold of a unit, they are a very good attack piece with spitfire, but a lot better as a missile launcher, it is strong both as an ARO and as an active turn TR-remote killer by stacking -12 with range and cover with TO, but I would recommend to put your ML noctifer in a position from where it can spend some orders to get close to your opponent's models, because with that assault pistol it is a great close range attack piece as well. Also, did I mentioned that they are AVA2 in onyx? So you can either go a super-suspicious way of 3 SWC missing from your open list using double ML or a ML and a spitfire, though I think double ML is still a better choice. As fo Sphinx - onyx is kind of the best place for it right now, an ability to take not just a great rambo-TAG, but a strong and chep link team of unidrons as a support and back-up attack unit is so much better than mind games in shas or wider choice of units in vanilla CA, you can also built about 15 order list with sphinx in onyx.
     
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  4. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    That is what I figured about the Suryats. Makes me wonder why they are even in Onyx to begin with when you have the Super-Jumping Batriods for a few more points.
    Nice to hear about the Nocts being useful.

    @Erbent More nice things about Nocts. Seems like the Sphinx is exactly what I though it was. What is your take on the Malignos? Is it worth it to get one model or just pass on the unit altogether?
     
  5. Erbent

    Erbent Well-Known Member

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    Malignos is very useful, for missions wher it is advantageous to have specialists start right near objectives they are a good choice, I just personnaly don't like that they are pricier compared even to other basic TO infiltrating specialists because of two veeeery situational rules, and when comparing to dasus NVI and nanopulsers for less points I sometimes can't justify taking malignos. it's still useful, so you can give it a try if you don't mind the sculpt, but overall malignos are a situational mission-dependant unit, not a must-have.

    As for suryat - it's useful for lower points games or missions like rescue where there's a difficult terrain zone, but they are even more situational than malignos.

    For fraacta I think the combi from starter is enough, but you can take a shotgun model as well, it has a better sculpt imo, and double fraact lists can be fun. Spitfire is useful on more open tables, and as assault hacker I would rather take malignos.

    Maakrep is a good choice if you are expecting a lot of vanilla ariadna or steel phalanx, but generally linked unidrons with a buff from hacker can do the job.

    Overdrone and xeodrone are good as more surviveable pieces capable of both active and reactive turn killing, but again unidrons generally do the shooting better.
     
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  6. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    One thing that can be fun at dual-list events is to use a sphinx in the first round or two, and then once everyone knows you have a sphinx in hidden deployment, use your other list with 2 noctifers and 2 malignos to really mess them up.


    Also, i've found that for missions like Quad Control, Loot & Sabotage, Capture and Protect, etc (pretty much any mission where the enemy is going to have to come near your deployment zone), a Noctifer LT in TO state makes a really good guardian because if you can predict that your opponent is going to send someone on a raid, he's a pretty good suppression fire piece that can use his own order to set it up.
     
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  7. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    I actually question them in MAF. No specialists, a bizarre Haris (which would take this away from my Kurgats/Sogarats), and only really the HRL/Multi Rifles for unique gear to bring to the table.

    And when you look at Lt options - the HMG is only about 10pts diff from the Soggie, who gets an AP HMG and better ARM.
     
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  8. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    Thank you for that bit of info. What missions would the Malignos be used in?
    Another good tactic to use the Noctifer for.
    So the Malignos would be a better buy than the Suryats. Plus it would be easier on the wallet.
    Another unit that the Malignos beats at being a specialist. Seems like I might buy one in the future.
    Good to know. I was never keen on the Sygmaa units anyway. While some of their skills look nice on paper they never made me want to place them in a list. Another downside for the Maakrep in Onyx is that there is no smoke. So it limits the opportunities for her to be useful. Vanilla Combined fixes that with smoke throwing Morat units but I still don't care for the models at all. If I ever, ever wanted to try the current Sygmaa units I'll proxy or convert a model instead.
    In other words, their little brothers give you more bang for your buck game-wise & wallet-wise. Guess if I felt or needed a cheap T.A.G. for lists or missions that can use them I'll pick them up. Just not right now.
    Poor Suyats. For such an esteemed & decorated unit (fluff/lore-wise) they seem to have no purpose even in their own sectorial. Sounds like they need a buff or reworked a bit to give people incentive to pick them up and use them in lists.
     
  9. Erbent

    Erbent Well-Known Member

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    Malignos is useful for mission such as supplies and all the other with objectives in around the middle of the table where you neet to push buttons, as well as for highly classified because it's the easiest and safest way for onyx to get a hacker close to HVT and enemy models for that spotlight or WIP-3 roll on classifieds, and malignos can also do the kidnapping classified.

    Yeah, maakrep already being a mediocre MSV2 unit is just outshined by evrything else when left without smoke support, but you still might want to give it a shot if TO snipers and general spam of camo/TO/mimetism/ODD units is prelevant in your meta.

    Overdrone and xeodrone are still great models and are good for holding territory missions like frontline and quadrant control and the likes of that, xeodrone has a nice utility with its super-jump and red fury, with a 4" jump and the size of S6 you can get some unexpected LoFs to your opponent's models, you can also put a xeodrone as an ARO unit - with ARM8 in cover and a blitzen with 3 STR it can be a good bullet sponge for 2-3 orders and occasionally will shut down enemy rambos with a blitzen hit, so try them sometime; as for overdrone, plasma snipers loadout is definetly overshadowed by linked unidrones, but HRL's are good as an active and reactive gun, and with HRMC you can somewhat advance up the board and then get it into suppressive fire to lock down acces to objectives or area in quadrant control missions.

    Also suryats aren't exactly bad, they're just a plain old basic HI with morat rule and jungle terrain slapped on it, and also BTS6 which is good, but they're generally better in morats as a pain train link team with Kornak as a great LT and a raktorak as a specialist. also a solo HRL is a good alternative for overdrone because you can save up whole 18 points, and thats 1-2 orders more in your list, while being about as good as shooting stuff dead, which is also true for an HMG - again quite cheaper than other heavyly armored choices with B4+, so has it's uses, just nothing super exciting, but still a decent choice for their cost.
     
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  10. gamma ray

    gamma ray Well-Known Member
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    The Fraacta is arguably the best AD unit in the game, and we get access to 3 of them! 28 points for 2W, BSG and a Nanopulser. These guys have ruined enemy back lines for me more times than I can count.

    Noctifer Missile launcher is a wonderful ARO piece. Sitting high and in cover, it will ruin your opponent's day and be very difficult to hit without MSV.

    Personally, I love the Sphinx. Hilariously fast at 6-6, with careful deployment, he can make it to the opponent's deployment zone within 2 or 3 orders, where double Heavy Flamers or a Spitfire can wreak havoc.
     
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  11. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Tohaa's AP trooper is not shabby... just Paramedic (arguably a better specialist, since it costs 0SWC and cannot be hacked, while still being "a HI").

    That being said, my 2 cents here:
    • I see little use (in general) to Suryats, aside from having a Lt that cannot be Isolated, or a Duo that cares nothing about the presence of a live Lt.
    • Rodoks provide quite good firepower, with a 5man link mimetic HMG. However, not everyone is able to effectively use a 5man link (and we are talking about a MI link, so no second chances in the shape of 2 wounds). Making it the second Haris of the sectorial would be great, however (or the Suryats...).
    • Malignos: Only infiltrators in the Onyx sectorial, that alone justifies their use. On the bad side, only the hacker can be found in a blister, with the other version being a "shasvastii starter" only miniature.
    • Noctifer: I find this is a personal preference troop. Personally, I'd go with the Spitfire option as an active piece troop, kinda like a "miniSphinx", the Missile Launcher is too much of a gamble for my taste, and the weapon is better placed on a Unidron link.
    • Maakrep: another troop that needs some love, removing the Automedikit and the sixth sense might be good to cheapen her, maybe with a 360 (HMG) and X visors (MSR), or giving her a Haris option with Unidrons, Nexus and/or Umbra.
    • Fraacta is good, Fraacta is god. "HI" AD troop for 28-29 points, that is the cost of a Riot Grrrl!!! (one of the "most attractive HI in the game to link" due to cost and loadouts), you can deploy her with a combi and use the Nanopulser to hunt for enemy groups (taking hits), or my preferred Boarding Shotgun for TAG hunting (yes. My Fraacta has sucessfully wound a TAG more than once. Passing by, since it was not her main objective). Also when wounded she gets even more resistant at the cost of turning into a MI (keepìng inmunity to Shock!), something you care little about since she is on the enemy's zone anyway. Also, she is cheaper than a Malignos as a "Hidden Deployment" specialist, at the cost of not showing up for ARO duty.
    • Sphinx: another good troop, pricey but fairly so. Keep her out of enemy flamethrowers and enjoy the running killer. She demands a list built around her, however, so sometimes it's better to go without TAG or use just a "cheap" Overdron/Xeodron (which are half her price at least, so it all boils down to "do I want a TO TAG?").
     
  12. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    Suryats aret bad at all, they just fill the same rol as xeodrons and overdrons ( sphinx is on another league). The duo or
    A solo suryat can be killing machins and for his cost you can run a 15-17 order list with a second tag ( xeo or the cheap overdron). They have some weak points and good points in comparation with our light tags:

    S2 insted of s6: depend of the meta and the game it can be good or bad. In my meta, where tank hunters and links with ap weapans are in every game s2 is better. In some situtions s6 works better cuz it make eady to see the enemy.

    Hacking: tags can be more affected by hackers than ips, but the tinbot makes the point for suryats.

    3 wounds vs 2: no mistery here.

    Superjump: well with 10 cm of movment xeodrons can't jump to much but is a point in his favour. I still prefer the samaritan to superjump.

    Short range: if you compare xeodrons with a Suryat duo there is only one thing, Vulkan shotgun.

    And some misions like rescute, biotecvoro are suryat free.

    Anyways i have both Xeodrons and Suryats and they fit very well together in spam lists.

    Apart of these i like all units you asked about except the Maligno. He is not bad, just expensive for the sectorial and every time i'm going more to run from your DZ list. But in some misions having one troop being able to push buttons from turn one is just neccesary.

    Also as xagroth said the Noctifer ML is a bit about luck with only 1 dice in active. Some times is swap it by a MSR noctifer ( only if i feel i will need more active turn firepower).

    And i know you didn't ask about it but, buy a damm umbra xD
     
    #12 krossaks, Feb 12, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  13. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    Lot of good feedback in the thread regarding stuff to pick, I agree with most of it.

    It's pretty poor how bad Suryats are in Onyx though, they really don't fit.

    with anathematics imo
     
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  14. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I think it is related with how many expensive units Onyx has access to, while it only has a few cheap ones (remotes, essentially, and Nexus), thus the Suryats compete with a lot of troops. Not having access to Kornak & his majordomo also means no way of "cheapening" the cost, plus no way to insert a specialist in the duo.
     
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  15. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to create the Suryat deffen league, beacuse all model with Hmg needs our love.

    Seriously i pick one or 2 very often ( more or less like the overdron) and they work fine. Ofc the xeos have more carisma but every time i play them just die in reactive. Probably i'm not good going with huge s troop if they don't have TO.

    Anyway if you want hard push pick the Sphinx
     
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  16. alchahest

    alchahest Well-Known Member

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    I make heavy use of the Xeodrons and the Noctifer - the Xeodrons are ridiculously mobile and devastating in mid range - remember the red fury and multirifle are more potent during ITS season 9! (and forever if there's any justice in the world), and the Noctifer is a beautiful thing for busting down link teams.
     
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  17. Styx

    Styx Cat.IE~~

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    I added 3 votes.

    Malignos, if you want to play to do mission points only, with all drones and "cheap" profiles in a high list orders.

    Fraacta, no words to add on this troop, powerfull and strong backline killer, same points at 300 or under 200 with Rodok team and Malignos.

    Sphinx, to do all things. On LI with Rodok link or in "spam" list orders with unidron core, with Bit to cover this beast from the assault hacks. Awesome miniature really, and a great but expensive TAG to clean quick, ligth profiles and cheap orders.

    Maybe if i can add 1 some profile, i can choose Noctifer LT or Spitfire (if i can't go with Sphinx or Fraacta), i don't mess that ML in reactive turn, bcs unidron link with twin ML and marksman its a better preference for me and deals more power strike.
     
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  18. sanyv

    sanyv Active Member

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    Well I voted for Xeodrons and/or Overdron. They are great assets but have to compete with other good stuff (unidron fireteam for instance). I've not taken them so much but they never disappointed me. Their best accomplishment (in my short experience) was to super jump in order to isolate and imm-2 an overconfident Achilles. All that I like about them in one order.
    I didn't vote for the Sphinx because I still hope it will be resculpted, but... yeah... maybe in a few years. Apart from the mini, it's really great. "Yeah we don't have smoke, but f*** you, in three orders I'm in your deployment zone with this murder machine".

    Apart from that, it's really nice to see that almost all our units are someone's "favourite". Keep murdering !
     
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  19. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    That would certainly help the Suryats in Onyx at least.
    That would be a much better choice/pick for Onyx or at least the Charontids instead.
    Good point. The HMG or HRL could be useful to free up some points & be a pseudo-Batroid T.A.G. for slightly less.
    Suryats seem to be worth more than I expected. Thanks for comparing both of them side by side. I now see how both units can contribute to a list than where I was before.
    Goodbye Brad Pitt, it was nice knowing ya. Hopefully I'll get to try them out someday.
    More good news for adding the Malignos to my choices.
    I believe you about that.
    I might pick up the BSG & Spitfire Fraacta down the road. Those sculpts look more dynamic than the static one in the starter set. Plus I could always convert a Combi Fraacta as well.
    That sounds like a nice idea.
    I have two. BSG & the Spitfire model which I'm converting into a "universal proxy" for the Legate unit. I also bought Joan of Arc for my Military Orders force and got the "downed" Umbra as well. I know alot of people gave flak about the Umbra's arm but that Umbra is what pushed me towards buying into Onyx. I'm working on making that decimated Umbra a Samaritan "universal proxy" cloak and all. Either that or use the model as a objective for Combined/Onyx forces. But I'm determined to make my "jump-scare" Umbra a reality.
    Since we are on the topic of Rodoks, how do the rest of you view this unit in Onyx & Morats in general? Are they better in one secorial or the other? Do they shine/have a place in Vanilla? What are your two cents on the newest regiment of Morats seeking to climb their species' social/military ladder?
     
  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Malignos is your only infiltrating specialist, super helpful. I'm not biased or anything.
     
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