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Why so serious? Or can someone summarize the negativity

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by BarbeChenue, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. banthafodder

    banthafodder Well-Known Member

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    You mean getting caught with their pants down on the same day across 6 different solar systems not even a year after they had to put down the Baijing protests?

    Anyone got the Kanren meme picture?
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Nah, go back and read it again.
     
  3. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I think that there's a typical problem with fiction like this, which tries to have a geopolitical element, that people will inevitably say "why didn't they just do this?" when they read about a fictional entity making terrible, terrible decisions. In actual fact fucking things up institutionally is extremely common.

    Put it like this. Fictionally, people would say it is ridiculous that a massive power, strongest in the world, would embroil itself into a regional conflict which had previously been occupied by, and kicked out, numerous works great powers. They'd say "can't they see how stupid that is?"

    The invasion of Afghanistan still happened and the war ie still ongoing 17 years later and the Allies are losing. This may sound ridiculous in fiction but truth is stranger and fiction which tries to emulate geopolitics is hugely lacking in realism if very stupid decisions are not occasionally made. Uprising.
     
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  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    No. He had no idea that people had negative opinions on the topic, and had apparently received plenty of positive feedback. The only way he even heard about it (apparently) was people being "strident" on the forums. And yeah, he said he'd take it under advisement, but if I (and others) had been milquetoast about it, he would never have known.

    Well, as I stated, milquetoast critical commentary gets ignored. And then they're in a situation where they don't want to kowtow to people with bad attitudes - fine. But that's a situation perfectly engineered to never have to adjust based off of outside input, with any possible course correction being able to be ignored or shrugged off with "those people are assholes."

    Eh, I'm not so much interested in the opinion of the community in that way. They want to make memes about me? Fine. More PanO players want to complain about the updates their faction gets while telling other factions they have no right to complain? That's fine, not gonna respect it though.
     
  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I mean there's been insults on both sides. I have no idea who started it.

    You had some interesting ideas, but fundamentally they only work if Gutier sees what YJ did in Uprising as a misstep or "working as intended." And if it fills the narrative purpose of PanO players having an evil empire to fight, then it's not going to get changed.
     
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  6. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it's because those of us who see some merit in Uprising, regardless of your opinions, don't really appreciate your attempts to polarise the debate. Those throwing the biggest stones need to have thicker skins...
     
  7. Furiat

    Furiat Mandarin

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    Gentlemen.Calm down. @Hecaton should've posted it the way nobody could've read it offensively and @atomicfryingpan shouldn't have escalated it. Both sides have right to share their opinions but many forget that if somebody disagree with them, they aren't automatically idiots who have no idea what they are talking about. There were some aggresive posts here and there and this is bad, but if you have differen opinion on the topic, maybe reconsider if not trying to correct that person in their (obviously stupid) statement would really hurt your pride.

    This post isn't targeted at any specific user. Just wanna say thet there are better ways to build up your self-esteem. (Just remember that when something is in not an insult in your eyes, it can be in another perspective)
     
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  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Hey, I didn't worry about it until I saw @psychoticstorm 's comment. It's hard to take a lot of the stuff that @atomicfryingpan says seriously because he's so obviously shit-stirring with the intent of hiding behind the mod team if he gets called out.
     
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  9. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

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    Lol any comments with the word hugbox I can't take seriously at all, mine included lol. Easily one of my new favorite words. I'm not trying to insult you personally. I actually enjoy you on the forums. You're a passionate member who sticks to their guns! In may not agree with ya on things but I respect you because you are always willing to defend your position. #fistbump
     
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  10. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

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    @Stiopa I think out biggest disagreement is either in how we expect the population would react or like to see them react. I don't think your ideas are dumb on completely implausible. I think your preference is for a lighter shade of gray and mine a darker shade of gray. The IA fluff in 3rd0 Is definitely that lighter shade with the invincibles very much being portrayed in positive light and an actual army of the people. I like the dynamic of that because it they were just ISS in heavier armor I feel like it would make YJ boring. I think having a good balance between two is important.
     
    #350 atomicfryingpan, Dec 6, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  11. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Well, I'm first and foremost a PanO player, and I'd really like my faction to have a proper opponent, not a bunch of stereotypes on a stick. Yu Jing should be ruthless, but in a smart, dedicated and focused way. And while everyone shold have their fair share of missteps - how about PanO using their reinforced, dominant position to curtail Nomad and Haqq interests, so they will realise what they've done? - everyone should also learn.

    Might be. I love those darker tones as well, but I agree that there needs to be some balance. We'll see how will the story go.
     
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  12. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The problem is that vacillating between these two viewpoints depending on the sourcebook is that 40k-style "codex writing" that you claimed wasn't the case.
     
  13. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean?
     
  14. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, lots to catch up on, pardon the huge post.

    Thank you all for your concerns about my health.


    So you're OK playing SS Concentration Camp guards, at Auschwitz?

    Noted.


    I game to get away from that crap.



    Uhm, are you saying that PsychoCrane, the head of the thricedamned Yuandun Division, was a creation of PanO?!? Remember, PsychoCrane is the one who was on camera talking about mass graves!



    Exactly.

    That quote changed the perspective of YJ from "hard people doing a really hard job" to "incompetently evil people".

    Look, the Great Firewall of China today blocks all mention of the protests of 1989. China knows how to keep rebellion from spreading. Allowing PsychoCrane to shoot his mouth off on camera is NOT how you keep a rebellion from spreading.



    As @Stiopa says just below, YJ won't publicly admit being weaker, or at most will only admit to not being as strong as they want to be. They will certainly admit in private that PanO is stronger than they are right now, but that they have a plan to become stronger than PanO.

    China is the master of long-term plans. 50-100 years is a regular planning timeline for them right now. You don't get good long-term plans without seeing things as they really are. OK, so PanO's GDP-per-capita is about 25% higher than YJ on paper, but it has a very high standard deviation with long tails on both sides of the data. YJ's GDP-per-capita has a much smaller standard deviation and a long, skinny tail on the higher-income side. (Translation from statistician-speak: PanO has a lot of money, but there is a very large income disparity between the poorest and richest. YJ doesn't have as much money, but the poorest in YJ is richer than the poorest in PanO [ edit ] and has a much lower income disparity between the richest and the poorest [ /edit ]). Now, in order to get YJ's GDP-per-capita up to PanO's, we need to ...



    That's exactly why I was saying that the Party needs to throw the sitting Emperor under the bus. So sad that the Emperor accidentally fell down the stairs and accidentally died while drunk*, and now there's a new Emperor in house who needs to clean up the Imperial Service for screwing up by the numbers.

    * Go read your Infinity Core book again. The Party has done exactly that before.



    I'm not denying that stupid decisions get made, and often doubled down upon, in real life. Fiction really needs to be less stupid than reality or people don't believe the actions reasonable/possible.

    I don't have a problem that the Uprising happened.

    But the Uprising had several parties acting very out of character for how they had been written before. So far out of character that it broke my immersion in the setting. And that's what I've been complaining about since March!
     
    #354 Section9, Dec 7, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I'm talking about @Space Ranger 's post earlier that you mocked who was criticizing exactly this.
     
  16. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    @Hecaton
    I feel you sell people who convey feedback too short, I have made sure all the feedback is conveyed were it must, even if it means I have to dig through hundreds of posts with swearing, hyperbole and outrage to distil a few lines of actual feedback information and there are many people that make sure feedback is passed on including the warcors and not only the beta testers/ proof readers.

    Now as for the comment, to be honest I did not notice it but reading it again, it looks like a low level back and for between two forum posters that did not escalate, so I would not intervene until it does, definitely does not carry the undertones and message the image I said "ok fine stop it now" does and I did it more so because of its contemporary political nature than anything else, contemporary politics are way to volatile at the moment and they must stop.

    I do hope this explains a few things.

    @Section9
    Maybe focus more on the actual Yu Jing army than the paramilitary authoritarian (for Yu Jing standards!) police? they were never meant to be the good guys and do not seem to care about others as long as the law is preserved, yes, there are heroes among them, but there are also villains.

    To be entirely fair the state interfered with one emperor and this emperor iirc had an accident because he wanted to continue push the war when PanOceania was orbital bombarding both Yu Jing home planets, it was a rather radical solution at a rather desperate time, I am not sure the events of uprising would be on the same level to risk getting into the political situation of having an emperor die and all the extremely experience Ninjas are not in their service at the moment and the ones that are, I would say are in trial mode.

    Uprising was made to make JSA look good and Yu Jing bad, if one is motivated enouph, they can read between the lines, distil the propaganda and see the other side, accounts from 3rd offensive give another account and more pro Yu Jing anti JSA flair because the book is neutral.

    I am wondering how people would react to PanO if Hexahedron had a standing army like Yu Jing have ISS and Haqqislam have Hassassin Bahram, in the small fluff text Hexas have they are at least on par with the entire ISS.

    As I said, if you want to feel bad about Yu Jing read an anti Yu Jing book like Uprising, if you want to feel good about them, read 3rd offensive.
     
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  17. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    PS, the problem is that Uprising didn't make me like the Japanese, either.
     
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  18. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    I'd love it. Hell, I hope one day we'll get either something like this, or at least PanO-flavoured black ops NA2.
     
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  19. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    I’d wager the (if there is one) PanO flavored Mercenary company will be exactly that, an organized and codified team like Emily assembled.
     
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  20. Mikes

    Mikes Well-Known Member

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    Are you suggesting that one made-up game faction killed a load of another made-up game faction in real life?

    [​IMG]