They aren't direct translations, the situation of the US isn't the situation of PanO etc. This is not China flying fighter sorties over a seceeding California. It is not that you cannot draw parallels, for the observent, I did it in literally the following post, but that the parallels drawn are not accurate. The reason MAD doesn't apply is because MAD is based around the concept that there is no effective protection against a nuke attack/nuke attacks being able to cause complete and total destruction/guaranteed second strike capability. PanO and Yu Jing have fought open wars previously and it was closer to a conventional conflict because MAD clearly doesn't apply when each nation's combat forces are contained to specific theatres (Sval and Paradiso) with core worlds mostly out of strike range. In this sense, China attacking US forces in California would invite the possibility of a nuclear exchange: MAD. YJ in the same situation cannot replicate the proportionate effects of the nuclear exchange (neither can PanO) and therefore a conventional engagement doesn't carry that risk, ergo it is a vastly different situation.
How do you justify a new player jumping into the game? Especially when they are promising a more tumultous year to follow.The investment to get into Infinity is a big ask, bigger than a movie ticket or even a video game. After Uprising, I cannot, not anymore...That is just a bridge too far for me.
And some of us can, and do, and have seen plenty of new players come in since Uprising. Indeed, for us locally, there are folks who have come in specifically because of Uprising.
Sorry, I missed the part where the international community turned on the US after an overreaction to 9/11 and supported Californian separatist groups with military force. The analogy just doesn't work the way you're trying to force it. I haven't seen anyone say "This fits with our understanding of geopolitics for x,y and z reasons" to the degree that those disagreeing with the quality of Uprising have.
Ok, so given that, why did PanO stop with supporting JSA? If Yu Jing was helpless against their air superiority and military might, and can't retaliate with a MAD-tier response, why didn't they just knock over their rival? If YJ can't stop them, then the Nomads or Haqq definitely can't.
They weren't helpless. They were unable, at the time, in that place, to deal with PanO aerial intervention. There are many subtleties between "helpless" and "entirely secure"
I mean at that point you can't maneuver troops, you basically can't fight back - there's a reason why air superiority is a big deal.
...Do you? GW choice to adopt a new strategy definitely didn't come from user feedback. It came from reductions in sales. GW customers have been complaining about GW since the 80s. GW didn't bother caring until their YoY started tanking and they had shareholders to answer to. When companies conduct studies or solicit feedback, the structure is controlled and the sample size is vast, because asking unqualified consumers for their opinion is a hot mess unless a company is targeted with their questions and structured in how they engage consumers. The feedback given here is none of those things. This section of the forum can be as vocal as it wants, but there's no indication that Uprising had a negative impact on sales. Even if these negative opinions did represent a significant percentage of CB consumers (which they don't) the vocal minority isn't representing themselves well at all. Even the good posts (and there have been several) get lost in the neverending wave of short-sighted, entitled ideas. The metaphors for this situation are easy. Parents shouldn't spoil kids that throw tantrums. Countries shouldn't negotiate with terrorists that make demands. And companies definitely shouldn't take advice from faceless internet users. It's true that individual feedback to a company can be really helpful. There are some well articulated points in this thread. But when you're using a public internet forum to do it, and you're surrounded by bad behavior... You instantly defeat your ability to persuade. In fact, you've created an obligation for the company or entity you're addressing to ignore you. This is doubly true when the crux of your complaint is challenging a company's IP. A company can do whatever it wants with its own IP. Nerds certainly hate the idea that they don't control a given lore (look at Star Wars) but at the end of the day, whoever owns the IP can morally (and certainly legally) do whatever they want with it, without being accountable to anyone. I don't really have a stake in whether people in this thread enjoy IA or not. But if you've convinced yourself that you alone have the secret knowledge to universal tabletop wargaming success... Noone else sees it that way. Perception is everything. And threads like this are not well perceived. Even if some posters here are mainlining unlimited cosmic wisdom that yields unrivaled commercial success, it all gets lost.
Which is right and wrong, as the "nerds" are "90%" (usually) of the crowd who actually puts the money forward. Which can be actually seen as Star Wars is (apparently) going through some "backtrack" phase (afaik). It's usually summarized as "normies do not buy your stuff, so stop appealing to them".
Getting into any miniature game is a big ask but its incredibly easy and I've gotten people into the game and into yu jing and they're still happy post uprising. Typically starts with someone looking at a game being played and commenting on the scenery first and how cool it looks. Then talking about infinity the game and how it's a skirmish based wargame in a sci fi setting that usually takes 10-15 models to play. Then setting up a demo and telling them to check out some of the factions they like and that I first and foremost would go by what looks the coolest to them. I then tell them one of my favorite parts of the game is how almost any scifi trope can be represented in the game. You want space knights? Got em. Space ninjas and samurai? Got em. Lower tech/closer to modern tech dudes fighting against hi tech dudes or aliens? Got em. Space werewolves? Sure thing. Space mercenaries of good and or bad repute? Yup. A gray space monkeys? Knock yourself out? Ghost in the shell? You know it. The infinity universe has a TON of options for people to get into. After they tell me what kind of stuff they like I might direct them towards whatever faction covers that the best. Then I run em through some demo games if I have some models of that faction great if not then I use what I think they'll like. After we do some of those I make sure to keep talking with them about the aesthetics and factions and stories of the factions they like and even if its a faction I'm not totally psyched for I make sure to be interested in their interests. If they're liking the rules I show them how the army building works because it's one of my favorite parts of infinity. For me it's a huge added value that all the building is done online or an app and that profiles can be tweaked online and we dont need errata cards, stickers, or books. I show them how the wiki works really easily on the phone and I tell them what in my opinions is the best part that this is a living game. The story changes, units change, people die, and for me I like that. I'll talk about people like Ko Dali, izzet beg, the caskuda and the like. I let them know straight up that stuff changes and luckily you dont have to buy books or anything to get those changes but if the stories really catch your fancy you can buy the books for that since the rules are free. I tell them sometimes units are gonna get leave factions and swap around. The Japanese just rebelled against yu jing and are now their own faction. Inevitably that leads to well what about the models. To that I say well if you have alot of models that are affected you can break off into another faction and now maybe you have guys pm both sides of the conflict. Maybe now you have the JSA and Yu jing or maybe now you can operate an Ikari team. I tell them that infinity has an incredibly relaxed proxy rule which I love since for me I wanna like the looks of my dudes over the rules instead. I also proxy people before I buy them to see if I like them. I'll even do that for whole factions. I play starco and use 0 nomad models, I dont like the looks of em. Fusiliers for alguaciles, orcs for brigada, pano remotes, etc... and no one makes a fuss. That's basically how I present it get people into the game and it's worked well so far for me. I think it's all in how the message is presented. I could easily give all of the information and convey it in a tone that would turn people off from the game. I could say yeah be careful because who knows if you're army is actually gonna be there because they might just say fuck it and take it away. Then you either gotta buy new minis or be that guy who proxies everything. Good luck with that. It's all in how you perceive and present it. For me uprising has been great. I liked the fluff, I liked the split, I dont think they can handle it anyway that makes everyone happy. So I still have 0 problems investing and getting new players to invest into it. Even my friend who got into yu jing before the uprising is fine with it and excited for IA. He saw the hsien on the red veil box and was like I wanna be these guys and I need them .
If Infinity was a true Science fiction, then there wouldn't be guys that somehow gain 4 times their body mass in a matter of seconds. Not to mention, grow hair, teeth, and claws. I suppose it could be that they are hollow inside and filling up with gas. That might explain the super-jump!
Yes but something to remember is even though you're paying $$$ for it doesn't mean you own it. You're basically paying rent to stay in their house that you really like. How any SW fan could tell Goorge Lucas that his ideas are terrible or wrong and should have changed them are crazy to me. It's his story that he gets to tell however he wants. That's his artistic license. Same thing with infinity in the world they create they get to say how nations and aliens and people react in it because that's the story they want to tell. It doesn't matter how many models and books you've bought or how much money you've thrown at them no amount of that entitles you to having a say in how the story should be. If the star wars stories are ones you actually enjoy enjoy then keep paying to listen to them. If you dont like them then don't pay for them anymore and only stick with the ones you like. You dont get to take it back because it was never yours to begin with.
@barakiel Thank you! Someone who actually gets it. You my friend get 1,000 internet bucks! Best post of the year.
It'd be more effective as a protest to sell my models, because that takes twice the $$ out of CB's wallet that just burning my models does. But I was really, really fucking close to burning my entire collection. Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest sonofabitch in the universe. Ships in Infinity appear to be pretty large. Even the personally-owned Dolly Dagger is pushing 400 tons if built like a 747, more if built stronger. Take a 100,000ton freighter (that's the size of a current-day VLCC oil tanker) and push it up to 100km/sec (easy to do over time) and you have a dinosaur killer. How many star freighters does YJ have? There is no effective protection against a massive kinetic strike, and you can tailor the power of the impact either by speed or by mass. The unwillingness to get into a shooting war with a MAD-capable power is why Russia got away with invading Crimea and eastern Ukraine.
No. Clearly in Infinity that is not how space combat works. You cannot apply real world physics to Infinity and say "MAD does exist if you ram starship drives into planets!" they don't do that, clearly it is not part of the setting. Yes, we all know you have an extensive knowledge of physics vis a vis space combat. It is as inapplicable here as it is to any fictional setting. The setting must be internally consistent, it does not have to be physics-realistic.
I hate to sound harsh but honestly no one would have cared. We would all have moved on and not thought any more about it. There wouldnt have been posts reminiscing about the good old days when section 9 played the game and how much we missed his posts on the forums. No one at cb would have batted an eye.
