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Why should I play Tunguska over vanilla?

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by oakenwall, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    People tend to forget how much impact Mobility Skills have.

    It's a nasty defensive Skill.
    Being able to hide in hard to reach spots is massive. The Hollowman ML is the best HI ML in the game, simply because he can sit on a roof and can get down from there when your Link starts moving.

    With a 6" jump you can deny cover to wreak havoc on the offense.
    Being able to attack midfield Skirmishers and cheerleaders on rooftops is also a massvie damage/efficiency boost.


    A linked Druze LGL in 0 Range has 19.6% to IMM-2 a Core linked Hollowman on a roof. If that LGL can hit you in 0 or even +3, you can most likely kill it in your turn.
    ARM4 BTS6 with REM:PRES and Clockmakers that serves as Engineer and Doc at once.

    Honestly it's hard to see past the Hollowmen Link in TJC for me. They feel familiar to my MO Knight+Seraph lists.
    HM Haris will probably ve more common than a full Core.
    Other things that look great to me are the Perseus Core backing Spector and aKB HMG.
    While TJC can ruin anyone's day in the hacking business I haven't really built a list that contained more than a single KHD yet.

    The most concerning aspects are AROs, DZ defense and Orders. Apart from a Lunokhod, Puppetmaster Minelayer, Heckler Jammer and Linked Snipers/Missiles there aren't many things to defend against regular threats. As soon as Hacking is part of the Equation Mary Problems is about the best defensive Hacker you could ask for on this side of a Repeater. Spending a lot of points on her and Interventors will make you sad against the likes of Tohaa or Ariadna, so she might be list 2 material.

    There are mobility Skills everywhere and C+ as well as Superjump seem to be more defining for TJC than even Hacking.

    Imho Tunguska has loads of traps where you end up with 10 Orders of cool troops and no proper synergy whatsoever. 3 Heckler Jammers, full Puppetactica Links + a Core, KB Haris, Raul/Perseus Haris, Grenzer Links with Interventors. All that seems pretty capable to ruin a list if implemented without care.

    Getting 4x8 point REMs and a couple Securitate before spending points on toys, seems a good way to start building.
     
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  2. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    I agree, while it is easy to swap out securitate for better and/or cooler troops in the securitate core; you still need some of them as chearleaders. I like the Repeater + BS12 Shotgun. Easier to hide than a S4 Repeater REM and more resilient if the enemy reach your rear line.
     
  3. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Backlogged Painter

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    @Teslarod I agree in the extreme utility of the Hallow Men. Though I'm not quite sure I would call it the best ML in the game, it certainly is up there. Another thing of note is nearly all of them (not the BS specialist operative) have a chain colt, they can easily root out camo markers on roof tops with intuitive attacks or the like. Also paired with their crap phys, the chain colt is a point defense system for the link when other DTWs and CC dudes get nearby.

    I think both the HollowMen core, and the Securitate core have a lof of appeal. You can build the Securitate as a cheap order battery, a powerful defenseive link with Grenzers mixed in, or as a powerful offenseive link with repeater support and Perseus.

    One other tool people gloss over for deployment defense is the dismounted bike. It can corner guard with the chain rifle, or enter into FTF contests with the smoke grenade launcher, if it dies you're not out an order. If they don't kill it, you can bring it back online with an engineer. I think the Hecklers are being short changed slightly too, a BS/eMarat Hecker is an exellent (and cheaper) defensive surprise, and until revealed will be respected like a jammer.

    I also agree its waaaay too easy to spend all your points on new shiney. I've been starting lists with 2 flash pulse bots, and either a Dak or Clockmaker. The salyuts are temping too, but sometimes its hard to hide their fat butts.
     
    #43 natetehaggresar, Jul 6, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
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  4. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention is you are running it in a link, there is a repeater now in range all the time for white noise.

    I think the Salyuts may have a place just because I expect to be running a lukonhod pretty frequently, and if you have an order to burn, reloading crazy koalas is a pretty good use IMO.
     
  5. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

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    I think that this is something else to keep in mind. TJC has a very strong hacking game, but two whole factions don't care, and a few others can easily build competitive lists that don't care either. TJC might be one of those forces that needs to look at a different way of list building for ITS.

    It seems like people generally make their two lists based on the missions. I would guess (it's too early to be definitive) that TJC needs to look at list building in a different way. Specifically, basing list construction on opponent type. One list to use against "high tech" factions, and another for "low tech". I'm not sure what those lists look like yet, but I do think the idea has enough merit that it should be considered.
     
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  6. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Tunguska has immense hacking game but really if you are playing a casual game you know who you're playing against before you build your list to avoid taking AHDs against Ariadna, and in a tournament you get two lists, so you take one that is hacking capable and one that is, like, Hollow Men spam with a single KHD just in case.
     
  7. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    Spotlight, Cybermask, White Noise, and Supportware are always useful. If I was to take an AHD, I would take Mary, because at least she has a marker state option if there is nothing to hack. I would still list build largely to the mission unless there was sufficient crossover that I didn't feel it necessary. However, considering TJC has one Doc, one Engineer, & one Paramedic (all with line trooper stats), I think that any missions where Classifieds make up more than 2 points are probably going to want their own list.
     
  8. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    One of the great advantages of Mary Problems is that it provides almost all your hacking needs while also being a pretty good backup attacker vs low tech armies. Shock ammo + Cybermask + ODD makes for a nasty threat. No need to feel bad about having strong hacking vs low tech with her around.
     
    #48 Death, Jul 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
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  9. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    Shes great as a hacker, too expensive if hacking is ignored. Also remember that ODD does not play well with cybermask. But yeah, ODD means she is at least usable against a non-hacking faction.

    As for what is usually not hackable.... Haqq and Aleph (particularly Steel Phalanx) can also easily go the non hackable way. I find that in a *lot* of the games I play actually bringing hackable stuff is a extra liability that is not worth the cost.
     
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  10. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    How is she too expensive if hacking is ignored? Shes the same cost as a Moria? Thats pretty cheap for what she does.

    Of course, it depends on your meta. If most players in your area are avoiding anything hackable then yeah, shes not worth it. In an all comers list for tournaments where you don't know what to expect then I'd say Mary Problems is well worth her cost.
     
  11. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    I would actually hesitate to make a list without her, unless you know for sure you will be facing Ariadna.

    Even then, a spotlight at her WIP and with Tunguska's excellent repeater coverage is pretty great
     
  12. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone else been really loving the Puppetbots? I came in to TJC for the Kriza, but I always favor putting these little guys in over him. Every game they have pulled their own. With the Ap “Shock” Marksman Rifle and 2 BSGs they can really rip into a backline. Plus they are extremly mobile cheap specialists for Tunguska
     
  13. Click2kill

    Click2kill Well-Known Member

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    I would play TJC over vanilla for the Kriza/Hollow Man-Tinbot Duo, the KHD Spektr and the Securitate/Grenzer-Missile Launcher Link team. TJC also has an interesting Remote selection, with the Stemplar with super jump and the and the Advanced Deploy Tsyklons.

    I would play vanilla over TJC because overall, TJC is a frail list that lacks MSV2 and smoke options(you only get the Zondnautica with smoke). You will get punished for playing wrong or positioning incorrectly more harshly than you would playing a Vanilla list.
     
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  14. draker

    draker New Member

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    Perseus also have smoke.
     
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  15. Click2kill

    Click2kill Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected. Still, 24-33 points for smoke in a list is expensive. You can get that at 6-10 pts in vanilla.
     
  16. draker

    draker New Member

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    You are right, you can get it cheaper in vanilla, but speaking of options in the Sectorial, Perseus is one good option. Remember that can be part of Fireteams. You will not be paying XX points for smoke, but for whole profile inside a fireteam.

    But yes, again, there are cheaper options in vanilla, and not only for smoke. But you do not have fireteams or same AVA. Its another discussion ;)
     
  17. Click2kill

    Click2kill Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I am not trying to discredit either list, and the Fireteam/AVA argument could favor TJC depending what kind of force you want to field. To make up for the Fireteam bonus, most Vanilla lists tend to be the "All-stars" lists. Except maybe Onyx Contact for CA; they just seem to be a streamlined, strong CA force.