Hi honorable members. With all the changes in Daedalus Fall, why bother to play IA? Dashat appears to me even stronger then IA. IA: We have lots of Hi and pseudo HI ( nwi, etc..) But we are expensive. Normally we use LI lists with 10-16 orders, sometimes we can use 14/16 orders with REMs but our great advantages were lt2, NCO and tactical awareness... we lost the hegemony of 2 of 3 of these. What is your opinion about our near future? I think we'll have a glimpse of this in CANCON
Dahshat lacks NCO, the TacAw Zuyong, and LT2. The Zuyongs are stronger in IA than they are in Dahshat if you want to pain train hard IA's gonna do it better being able to ram more orders through the fireteam that can also bring a KHD where Dahshat has none. EDIT: The no longer lack the TacAw Zuyongs
Can they field Daoying? Can they field Mowang? Do they got 49pt game changing glorious CoC? Can they break open Haidao? No. Lol No.
As a player thats been around for awhile. This sentiment pops up pretty much everytime a new army drops. Personally? I'll play IA to field a button of sexy looking heavy infantry dudes. They likely reign supreme at the Limited insertion pain train lists. Only a cursory glance over dashat reveals some flaws already - OK skirmishers (similar to Druze), not necessarily packing a lot of punch unless you invest a fair amount into a 5 man link (ie. no star rambo pieces). The zuyongs don't get tactical awareness on the HMG which is huge.
I'd say that Core linkable Rui Shi with some incredibly good smoke support helps to do far more than leverage some of those disadvantages over IA.
I believe the comparisons between IA and Dahshat are misplaced. Even though thay both have Zuyong Core fireteams, Dahshat playstyle seems highly similar to Imperial Service. You can have a bunch of orders, a couple of amazing murder machines with smoke assistance and sweet infiltrated specialists that get the job done. The value of each and every army depends on the missions you are playing: some factions can tackle some missions easier than others. Personally, Dahshat looks like it can do what ISS can do (IDK if better or worse) while IA has other strong and weak points. IMO IA is more resilient, has better AD options and solo powerhouses, better defensive Core teams, better Wildcard troops (which is part of that resiliency I mentioned) and the LT options are just way better. Don't get me wrong, I will play Dahshat, because they have Saito, McM and a linked Rui Shi... But some of the options they have seem just lacking or overturned by other similar options inside the same sectorial (like the Hulang and Saito for example). Hell, @ObviousGray said it before: that buffed Rui Shi is not gonna get past a linked Haidao MSR. That guy is the real Gatekeeper. Sure, when the robot is in a good range band it's gonna look great, but trying to maneuver up to that point without getting shot at sound dicey AF (maybe your table terrains favor that, IDK). Although Maggie is just so much better that the Guijia and I hate life for that. Just make that model playable, CB come on. We may play it ocassionally but it's just because it looks amazing, don't get us wrong.
They both have a very different order economy: - IA plays on its strength and can absolutely demolish your opponent if bad karma and a bad mission/table/faction combo don't get in your way. But if things do go south you might have a harder time getting back on your feet, and eventually quickly run out of good options because of the lack of redudancy/diversity. - Dashat minimize its weaknesses, and offer easily applicable solutions to get out of a bad spot if the needs arise. However, for a number of those tools, if you don't need them they're just sitting there being useless because they're irregulars and you can't use their orders for anything else, which means you won't be able to reach the critical amount of damage you can do with the IA pain train. I think the way of the dashat company is what most competitive player would prefer since it provides more stability and solutions in case of catastrophic failure, but the sheer brutality of IA's pain train should definitely not be looked down upon.
Agree with @ObviousGray , no LT2, no NCO, no TacA. Invincible Army doesn't do 'subtle'. Subtle is for people who cannot afford power armor.
The Main reason is the extra order for a limited insertion list. A couple secondary options Courtesy list with 8 Rui Shis (2x Rui SHi & 2 Lui Duong which Holo Echo as 3 Rui Shis each). But I prefer this in Ikari and they can support it better, and have access to Smoke. Available in Vanilla 3B Missle Launcher (Yan Huo in Harris) Unique to IA Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon (Yan Hui) Available in Vanilla Exploding AD (Lui Xing) Available in Vanilla Killer Hacker in a link with TinbotB Unique to IA (not 100% sure)
For me, its the nice models and the more coherent looking army, but from a power level point of view, choosing Vanilla YJ or Dashat looks stronger right now.
Let's be honest, there's no way to compare Dashat with IA. I've been trying to build Dashat lists and I always end up with a spamy list full of quality wise "mediocre" troops that looks fun and is full of tools but resembles nothing the professional army that is IA. The Zuyong Core + Rui Shi might be the new hot thing this army has to offer, but in the practice that Zuyong Core ends up being a Bounty Hunter "core" with a Rui Shi XD not to say how squishy is that Rui Shi and only AVA 1(also it gets the +0.5 tax like in Ikari and JSA). When you try to build something that resembles like an IA list you end up with a limited 1 single group list without the order efficiency mechanics of IA. Perhaps with a few extra tools like better doc, smoke or a badass ninja but far from having the hitting power that packs IA. It might work as a thematic list representing a Uygur IA regiment to play from time to time and just for fun, but nothing else.
Do you end up with a spammy list because you find it more potent or do you end up like that all the time because the sectorial's limitations forces you to?
I cannot answer for other people, but access to good cheap stuff and what you get, point for point, using those cheap profiles seem to be the main selling point of Dashat to people who I was talking about.
The Support troops for that HI Link are just so good. Hunzakuts, Libertos and Saito are tough competition for Hulang and Zencha, but you have all 5 to pick from. Bounty Hunters with Zuyong and Rui Shi is super flexible. The Zuyong aren't even limited to that weird 4+1 Fireteam Ikari is stuck with on top of plenty of Wildcards to make that a non issue anyway.. AVA3 Flashpulse Bots is a nice push for the Order count. Fits my playstyle better, and I recon it just has more tools and options to get the job done with 6 Camo Markers in the midfield for 50 something points. IA is superior for LI, they have the Hac Tao (for what it's worth) as well as better Datatrackers and Lt choices.
NCO is only on two troops that are pretty expensive and might not take at all. I have yet to try the Mowang. Lt. 2 is great but again only one guy has it and only two specific troops can use those Lt. orders. Dahshat does get the Combi-Tinbot Zuyong with Tac Aware. I'm okay with that. I didn't expect them to have any. Dahshat can make up for lack of TA, NCO, Lt.2 just by having more troops + Impetuous orders. McMurder is the Assault piece I always wanted in Yu Jing.
