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Why not just play Ikari?

Discussion in 'Druze Bayram Security' started by the huanglong, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    Answer to OP:
    Hard link restrictions.

    Druze are RIDICULOUSLY flexible in keeping that 5 man link bonus after a casualty or two. Normally, when you bust that big link down you can breathe a sigh of relief. Not vs DBS.

    "Hmm... I I guess I'll just throw Gromoz in there now."

    "You got my HMG? Man... ok, I'll reform the link with the Shock Marksman Rifle and x-visor."
     
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  2. Vain

    Vain Active Member

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    Having played a couple of games with DBS now I have to agree.
    Having someone in the link go down, continue moving around as a link and then pick up another person (usually Gromoz) and be back at full fighting potential is great.

    It has gotten to the point when I am stopping putting a medic in the link and just rush off to pick up a new body.
    Harsh...but fitting with their character.
     
  3. Phayton

    Phayton Active Member

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    That´s the Reason I treat Gromoz and the HMG like gems and refill the link with fresh bodys. Still haveing a B5 BS15 HMG in your last turn is nasty!

    DBS is command token hungry.
     
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  4. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    So true, if my lists plan to use command tokens in coordinated orders then I typically limit my fireteam core redundancy to one additional unit knowing I won't have enough to spend rebuilding the link more than once.

    I really wish Arslan had Advanced Command.
     
    #44 jfunkd, Mar 29, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  5. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Noone mentioned Hunzakut?

    Cheap infiltrating Specialists that also have WIP14 Flash Pulses, WIP14 for Targeting, can drop Repeaters, can drop mines, and come with Light Shotguns.

    Ikari isn't big on infiltrating, or mines, or Hacking. These are a great unit for Druze.

    Throw Saito and the Peacemaker in there and DBS has a very good midfield game.
     
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  6. Q.A.I.

    Q.A.I. Well-Known Member

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    Its precisely that midfield presence that convinced me to stay with DBS instead of switching to Ikari. There were a lot of considerations, but thats what pushed the tip.

    I think my gut reaction, as well as many others, felt like the toes of DBS were stepped on, but although Ikari has most of our units we have a distinct playstyle and much better specialists. I think I'll be writing a primer for the faction in the very near future
     
  7. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    Hunz, the Pecaemaker, and Saito are all major considerations on why I am sticking with DBS. The list I ran 4 times at Rumble had all of them and Le Muet for all the deployment shenanigans.

    With those units, their synergies with DBS, and the core team redundancy; I am feeling very comfortable with how Bayram plays.

    I thought Ikari was going to be a better unit lineup, until I saw that actual unit lists an fireteam combos. Make no mistake, Ikari especially could be a difficult match up for DBS with all of it's DTW options, but personally I prefer the play style that DBS offers over the brute force of Ikari.

    Starco will probably be more similar to DBS's style than Ikari.
     
    #47 jfunkd, Mar 30, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
    TheDiceAbide and Q.A.I. like this.
  8. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I personally like more about Ikari, (*Edit: besides the afore mentioned midfield powerhouses), is AVA 4 Yuan Yuan. I want 4 Yuan Yuan in DBS. I love Yuan Yuan.
     
    #48 oldGregg, Apr 1, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
  9. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    I would LOVE a Krakot in DBS.
     
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  10. Vain

    Vain Active Member

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    I am coming in from QK (mercs are my jam!) and I can always say that the more Yuan Yuans in my army the happier I am.
     
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  11. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree with you about Krakots. @Vain, I know how you feel. Ikari gets 4 over our 3! I want 4 in Druze to make up for my pain and suffering.
     
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  12. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    While I want Yuan Yuan in DBS, I think Barakiel summed it up in an earlier thread about DBS when he said something along the lines of (and I am paraphrasing from memory here) he was glad that "Druze aren't about positioning chain rifles, we have enough armies that do that."

    DBS has no warbands, it's part of their schtick. I like it too. DBS has a different style of play which is rooted in it's multiple tools that allow for more tactically viable choices in game than many other factions/sectorials.

    I feel Yuan Yuan would fundamentally change that, even at low AVA. Cheap WB, Smoke, DTW, Combat Jump, and Impetuous; these are all high impact on an army that was designed intentionally to limit or not include any of them, but instead allows for a host of other options.

    The Krakot though.... I get that there are no impetuous troops in DBS... but just like the Peacemaker is the exception that proves the rule about large templates in DBS, I would really like to see AVA 1 on a Krakot to have a single Impetuous troop in DBS.

    I don't think the Krakot would fundamentally change the way DBS plays like how the Yuan Yuan would. Its forward deployment really fits the style of DBS.

    A Krakot could provide an alternative to the role the Peacemaker plays as a cheap Rambo and midfield speed bump; it's more offensive but at the cost of the disposable flamer and the potential of a mechanized deployment repeater.

    The Krakot would allow more flexibility in list building, and also offers a few things that are not available in DBS (metachem, chain rifle, Impetuous) without being as disruptive to how DBS plays as the inclusion of Yuan Yuan would be.

    I wonder if CB looked at DBS during the design process and saw the need for this midfield role and chose to go with the Peacemaker over the Krakot. The Peacemaker is a bit more defensive and with its repeater it is definitely a better fit for DBS.

    I wish we could have both.

    TLDR: IMO, I want AVA 1 Krakot in DBS. Yuan Yuan are amazing, but change DBS too much.
     
    #52 jfunkd, Apr 2, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
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  13. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Very well written and analyzed! I agree that Yuan Yuan would change Druze too much, and even feel like the Krakot might take away from the redundancy so prevalent in our lists. While I personally love the idea of fielding these profiles with Druze, I think our roster is as near to perfect as one could ask.
     
  14. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Druze with Yuan are basically QK anyways (Yuan plus lots of link options). So I am rather glad we don't have them here.
    Kratok would make a lot of sense to me as well! I guess ABHs do fill that slot in DBS with being Regular, but without Forward Deployment they don't really work that well like Kratoks.

    Something I wish was available in DBS is the Bulleteer, but mainly just because I just love to field it in general. A Tsyklon instead would also be a nice addition and would add a medium priced rambo unit.
     
  15. Q.A.I.

    Q.A.I. Well-Known Member

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    Tsyklon:
    X-Visor [:heavy_check_mark:]
    Pitcher [:heavy_check_mark:]
    REM [:heavy_check_mark:]

    Checks out on mechanics and flavor. Only capabilities that would be new are the Feuerbach and climbing+

    I don't want to recieve a HI and I don't think it fulfills the style of DBS, but the idea of a shock team style HI with a "may duo with druze" clause makes me laugh. Druze already carry tons of weapons, so a druze HI would carry everything plus the kitchen sink with him into battle

    The Power armor would have to be outdated and mass produced, so a statline equivelent/worse than a zúyông?

    Enforcer, Druze Compliance
    MOV: 4-2, CC: 15, BS: 12, PH: 11, WIP: 13, ARM: 3, BTS: 3, W:2, S: 2, AVA:1
    Fireteam: Duo. Veteran L1, Fatality L1, Full Auto L1

    46/0 Enforcer - MULTI Rifle, Chain-Colt, Panzerfaust, Antipersonnel Mines, Viral Pistol, CCW

    Sound about right? Haha. Concept started with a multi zuyong, adjusting armnament and statline to a shock team. I downgraded the MOV to 4-2 and didn't give him an x-visor to make it a less effective solo rambo. The full auto interaction lets you burst 2 a panzerfaust, making him feel unique and giving a "screw you" ruthless kinda feel. Once again, I don't think HI fit what DBS is going for, but its fun/funny to theory-craft
     
  16. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    I guess a Tsyklon kinda works a little bit as a HI too.
    Something else to consider would be Karakuri. They carry a huge arsenal of weapons too work even great without Haris or link option (but also could potentially link like the Clipper), do work for Merc Companies and would add a little bit more of YuJing/JSA to DBS.
    Also since Druze don't have any amazing engineers they wouldn't be that broken, just a nice option.
     
  17. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of an Al Fasid with Druze. Again - I don't think we should actually get something like this, as I love our roster as it stands. But it might be a fun addition. I could see the Tsyklon as an addition that doesn't ruin our aesthetic/play-style.
     
  18. Ursun

    Ursun Tough as Nails, Grim as Old Boots

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    oh yes please gimme the al fasid allready...! when i first saw the ikary list i thought it was just a mesh betwen updated druze an jsa, and while its not, ijw comment about the druze rebuilding their strenght might hint fpr some future addition/ expansion to come. and lets be honest here, S5 HI, Bikes, mixed liks and smg galore are the shticks we've seen in the recent past/present, so dbs only getting one of those is kinda 'meh'
     
  19. Vain

    Vain Active Member

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    Honestly, other than the MULTI Rifle, that Druze dude wouldn't get much love in my lists.
    I would need it to be better somewhere, either in the armour, BS or the movement.
    I would love to get a Druze HI, so don't think I am against the idea, but I would want it to be better armoured than your average Druze, or the servo arms means it is better at shooting, or a little faster. At the moment it is a new gun and a second wound, though the Full Auto does make things a bit more interesting.
     
  20. Q.A.I.

    Q.A.I. Well-Known Member

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    I was trying to find and tow the fine line of "interesting, but not a staple" to keep the focus on the druze links. Maybe the jump down to 4-2 was too harsh, and could be a specialist operative? It wouldn't give us any capabilities for objective scoring that hunzakuts don't already supply on an infiltrating body