No, it isn't the same, cause Ariadna didn't colonize these islands. The Indians where forced to leave their homeland and live in these reservoirs. For Ariadna it didn't make any direct difference at these time. But I agree we disagree and this discussion spins in a circle and therefore I leave it. If you want to believe Ariadna is good, do it.
You're leaving it because you were proven to be wrong everytime you posted here. In the universe where every major power counts their strength in planets you don't go around dividing those planets on your own. In other words - if YJ invades NeoTerra it doesn't matter if they land on continent that was already colonized or not because PanO considers entire planet as their property. The same applies to Dawn. Example with Indians and Indian sanctuaries is therefore correct, you just have to upscale it to scale that is appropriate for the setting.
"Sir! There's already intelligent life here!" "Did you ask them if we can stay?" "They said no, sir." "Alright. Have the parents shoot their children and infants before they take their own lives, then do yourself. We're the good guys."
Ariadna DOES NOT deliberately create Dogwarriors (at least not in any fluff I've read). The Dogwarriors are hated because they are undeniable proof of a failure to protect a pregnant woman from an attack. This isn't "OMG that baby isn't mine, my wife was raped." It's worse. That baby was yours. And then there was an Antipode attack, your wife/girlfriend got bit, the cuckoo-virus infected the baby, turned it into something no longer human. And probably killed the mother, the woman you loved, giving birth to the alien-human hybrid, for good measure. There are so many Antipode attacks that there is a fairly significant population of Dogwarriors (and Wulvers, spawn of Dogwarriors). Enough for about 1 in 20 members of the military to be a Dogwarrior (assuming that Infinity army lists are representative of the overall military population), though it's not like there's many other career fields for dogwarriors.
Nice retrofit. I would bet that the initial contact was more like "look, these guys pelts make for great rugs and pets!" 20 years later "I wonder why why they keep attacking us" I don't have full access to fluff at the moment, but wasn't there a line how TAK wanted to have a regular source and had a black site?
"Ateks" are unregistered and therefore are not officially people. So their opinion is irreverent since they technically don't exist. :P USARF has the right idea about antipodes, burn them. Burn them all. *Death isn't a nice person. Go figure.
Heh, Ariadna being the "good" guys. Guess all the other factions on Dawn are totally cool with the Kazaks always calling the shots. Wulvers and Dogfaces being discriminated against. Treatment of Antipodes from using them as combat units, K-9 units, or just Desparados going around killing males, females, and children cause they can... Ariadna also has their equivalent intelligence group to everyone else... Ariadna is grey like everyone else. They're just on the lighter side and people have a thing for plunky underdogs.
You take people from cultures that spend their free time on hobby forums discussing how to extend their cutting edge and constantly evolving human rights to future sapient creatures, then hand pick the best and brightest to start a new colony, I'm sure the end result would see animals operating advanced tools like bows and go "I wants to eats their meatseses." I know some Brits here that sounds like them.
I left cause I was going to bed and I don't want to fight these blindness in this discussion anymore, cause I don't care enough for it.
Lol, apparently now we can judge and condemn one faction and can`t do neither with another because poor Ariadnians are so poor and pure. Please, continue, you make me laugh.
What that has to do with anything. Surely every bigger community needs to have a group that is in charge, and there always going to be some opposition. Hardly an argument for morality. You do realize that wulvers and dogfaces a little more than humans with little more hairs and different skin colour? Their situation is hardly ideal, being that they are pretty much are the innocent victims that did not choose to be born one way or another. But in the end they are also half-beasts - in literal sense of meaning - it's complitely possible and happens commonly that they lose control of themsleves and go full-on berserk mode called Blood Fever. Again, hardly ideal ahndling by Ariadnias but definitely understandable that in the end they are civilization born in hardships. There is a reason why, in our history, mountain clans or steppe people were just a little bit more strict and less forgiving for the members of their own communites. You mean the biologicaly enginnered antipodes that were created to wage war and fight? They are suppose to keep them in zoos and on the leash? Because that's the only alternative other than complete anihiliation due to their aggresive nature. I'd say that Antipodes prefer to be fighting. Desperados are definitely a scar on Ariadna image here, but in the end they are people from region that was most affected by antipodes offensives in the past - in the end they are bunch of people consumed by vengeance to an enemy that harassed their civilization their entire lives. Notice that USARF is also the only community that sanctioned such actions. Coincidentally it is also USARF that is on the frontlines of every Antipodes Wars. For whatever reason everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that Antipodes are not just some human rivals. They are the species that raided Ariadnas land at the very early stages of their development and brought them on the brink of destruction. And after that, did that again. I know that now, when Ariadna pretty much handled Antipodes to a degree it is easy to ignore their past, but facts are they are pretty much mortal enemies. You can't negotiate it with them, you can't coexist with them. It's either Dawners or antipodes and that is not the ultimatum Dawners created, but Antipodes themselves. Not being a bad guys just because they're defending themselves. On top of that if what's has been said about antipodes being a biological weapon created by Tohaa to specificaly target Ariadna colonist than the only argument for Ariadna being even in the same category as other nations in the sense of morality is that they are basically not very lenient for those artificaly created monsters that lives to destroy them. I get that people try to defend that attitude that CB themselves has stated on mutliple occasions - that there are no good and bad guys in Infinity world and that everyone is gray. And in the end they are right because it is CB that is creating the world. But facts are CB are YET to present the bad sides of Ariadna. BAD sides, like PanO pariahs or nomad experiments. And they did not that do that so far, is all. Unless we simplify being good to just being perfect 100% by some abstract measurement that does not take past expierences and material situation of the judged subject. On more appropriate subject of the thread, do we even know who and when created Aleph?
It is a fallacy to resort to saying everyone is equally bad just because drawing moral comparisons between different societies is difficult and multi-faceted. I'm very comfortable in saying that, for example, the Yu Jing government is more brutal, authoritatian and immoral than say, Haqqislams. Whataboutism is not a counter argument.
To be sincere here, I have a feeling the ethics have been more "sacrificed" in exchange for pragmatism in Infinity than in our actual time. Then again, it seems like we are presented with the worst excesses of the military organizations of each nation, and not the day-to-day people, at least in the wargame (for the P&P, I have not looked it up, but it would be the first I've ever seen with a comparison between our ethical code and that of a setting). ... Unless said powers can grind them to dust if they deem the war profitable enough... see the middle-east. In the end, strength is 6/10s of the law (the others being custom and legitimacy). Ariadna was the Underdog... now the JSA is XD Not like they have the resources to be more black... (not enough tech, population, etc...). And now, the Underdogs are the JSA... yet I still have to see them outside of demos XD
I would argue strength is at least 9/10s, as the only way to be sovereign is to have the power to repel invaders. Custom can change by applying boots to necks, and legitimacy is more often than not something that is given, but it can be taken.
"When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived."
Wasn't it information too. That Tunguskas has much of dirty money is beyond doupt, but they also stay for arachne
