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Why has CB split JSA from YJ?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by prophet of doom, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    This is what I was getting at, but aparently asking if it is a slur to abbreviate Japanese in other languages is off limits.
     
  2. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Well I don't speak Spanish, so it's not like I can cruise in there and chew them all out for it. If I could, then please be assured, I would. But "it's worse over there!" excuses nothing, obviously.

    Incidentally, I would have thought that the moderation on this site would ban the liberal use of racial slurs as a basic requirement of the rules, and yet here we are.
     
  3. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    But is it a slur in Spanish?
     
  4. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    But not knowing the language isn't an excuse, you've now been informed that it's a slur so you can cruise in there and chew them all out for it.

    Anything less now that you've been informed is being complicit in their continued usage of the slur and no amount of context can excuse it.
     
    Alkasyn and the huanglong like this.
  5. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Congratulations, you've won the prize for the stupidest thing I've read all day.
     
  6. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    @the huanglong Damn, why do you quote me so fast. I changed my post and you quote me like in a few seconds that it was posted.

    In general, Japanese that don't speak Englishor wouldn't understand the cultural context and therefore are not going to understand jap or why it would be offensive. Its in English speaking countries that its offensive for those of Japanese decent in those countries.

    I decided to remove all that because I wasn't writing it clearly. And you quoted that terrible paragraph. :(
     
    #126 Death, Mar 19, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  7. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    @Death Truth is your original sentiment was probably correct, from my own experience and understanding, slurs with no other meaning but their insulting one do not get much traction in East Asia. Their own slurs tend to involve words like "dog", "shit", "small", "beast", "devil" etc, things you wouldn't want to be. I had to explain "gook" to a Chinese person after it was in the news once, and it's basically "it means you guys, but bad". But for a Chinese or Japanese person who grew up in the west, these slurs can really hurt, it's a way of making sure they know they are different and not accepted. That said, I've known Japanese who refer to themselves as being 'Jap' in casual conversation and I don't think their intention was to belittle an entire race of people. It's more like the context and intention of a word matters.

    I'm still trying to find the context and intention of naming a unit "Kampeitai" in a different thread, not because I am offended but because it looks to be a very bold statement.
     
  8. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Not so heroic when they go straight back to the militant State Shinto shit from the 1880s-1945...


    Or bump the Zanshi up to whatever an actual full point worth of CC is. I suspect that Zanshi are actually 10.6 points while Fusiliers are 10.4, punting the Zanshi up to 11.4 points would be better. That's probably CC16 or so.


    Mostly story, with a side order of 'stepping on the toes of new IA units' (and probably making hideously broken combos in Vanilla with JSA and IA units)


    I'm going to point out that the current Japanese Self Defense Forces still use the Rising Sun. There's only a couple flags that are solidly Imperial Japanese military. I've even seen a rather small submarine in Pearl Harbor flying a huge Rising Sun (must have been 3x5m, when even a US carrier only flies a 3x5foot flag in port, wish I could have taken a picture). Visible from the Arizona Memorial. Was a JMSDF submarine in port for a visit.

    Also, there's a USN fighter squadron that uses the 'Setting Sun' (about the same as the JSA patch) as their vertical stabilizer decoration, has since about the early 1960s. Today, it's VFC-111 Sundowners, they're an Aggressor squadron.


    They were better when they were using the Imperial Mon, the Chrysanthemum. Better representative of what they stood for, IMO.


    The name is accurate, the post-Secession Kempeitai have gone right down the history of their namesake. "You're not loyal enough to the Emperor! *bang!*"


    Potentially me quitting the entire game and the forums, depending on how the fluff plays out. If I wasn't so cash-strapped, I might even throw a bigass bonfire if I bail.


    Gotta still be relatively polite about it.

    Last time I saw that word, I posted: "Can we please not use that word? It's like calling someone a n***** in the US." Yes, starred out, because I don't even want to type that word.


    No Habla Espanol.

    If I did, and was active on the Spanish side of the forums, I would be making that fight.


    With the spoiled post-Secession fluff, the naming seems to be with the full knowledge of what the historical baggage was. (read the "Is the name Kempeitai offensive" thread)
     
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  9. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Japos, guiris, gabachos, yankis, chinitos, moros, panchitos... we have lots of names for different countries; some are more derrogative, some are just the way we talk (without trying to be offensive).

    When we REALLY want to insult, we have better ones :p
     
  10. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    upload_2018-3-19_13-19-27.png

    :face_with_head_bandage:Google can't keep up with the lingo. Help us out.
     
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  11. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Japos (japanese), guiris (british and many other north-european), gabachos (french), yankis (north-american), chinitos (chinese), moros (islamic, arabs, people from middle east... wide range of ethnicities), panchitos (south-american with non-white appearence).

    Just as an example (sorry, this video would be very hard to translate) a few months ago the local police from the Vasque Country (one region in northern Spain), the Ertzaintza, had to release this guide for their agents about what languaje was acceptable, and what wasn't:


    At the 02:49 mark they start with the words that the police shoudn't use when talking with suspects.
     
    #131 Abrilete, Mar 19, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
    the huanglong likes this.
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I already discussed the Zhanshi in comparison to Moderators (literally only +1CC for +1 points), and the relative cost of CC probably meriting Zhanshi (and Celestial Guard AND Order Sergeants) for even higher CC values if maximized while keeping the points cost stable.

    However, I will say this; there's something funky going on with Fusiliers. BS is supposed to be an expensive stat, and I can't get the points cost on a lot of premium LI to work without having BS 11->12 be more than 1.0 points, yet for Fusiliers 1.0 (or less!) is what they pay. My only conclusion is that Fusiliers should cost 11 points but there's hand-adjustment (or a hidden faction discount) applying, keeping them arbitrarily low.

    Of note is also, because the way Zhanshi are painted into a corner, any stat-increases they get must also be replicated with the Celestial Guard, but Zhanshi are meant to be the lowest of the Yu Jing troops so they can't really get much of an increase anywhere. Personally, I'd say just drop the points cost of sub-19 CC values entirely and write all of those CC values off as flavour (no more costly in points than a red-painted body armour).
     
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  13. Danger Rose

    Danger Rose Sand Cats Tactical Security LLC

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    I'm from Latin America and I just rolled on the floor laughing with all those names ("tiraflecha" just killed me); the fact that I'm already going to Hell aside, the people in the interview were laughing because they couldn't believe people would actually used the more derogatory terms.

    During our stay in Madrid, we ha the most wonderful time. I was only called "Gilipollas" once and rightly so, beacuse my wife cut in the bus line and I had to go behind her with my daughter (I'm quite certain, my wife will be my cause of death). But we never really experienced any slur or mistreatment.

    Concerning the topic at hand. I say CB has been working out how to keep a "Living Background" for Infinity the Game; and capitalize on their writers' love for advancing the story. This is not the first time they do this, but it is the first Sphere Shaking Event they pull out. To that end, I think they did an Informed Desicion, based on ITS Data collected over the years; which supported their Story Driven Plans.
     
    #133 Danger Rose, Mar 19, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  14. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    I remember how AMAZINGLY politically correct and polite folks were in Bolivia... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, I couldn't keep a straight face typing that...
     
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  15. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    so, apart from discussing how inappropriate racial slurs are or how much others enjoy them as long as they are not the targets... lets get back to JY and the JSA.

    For now, it seems like the move will not hurt JY players that much, the JSA will get more unique and the story is driven on. Great, I begin to understand why CB did this.

    But looking at how much of the story we know so far I wonder: So we have an insurrection of fascists against an oppressive regime? Not really a story I find much inspiration to play with. Sounds a bit like 40k to me.

    (In case you don't know why I get to the conclusion that JSA are fascist from now on, please go to the neverending thread about the insensitivity of the usage of the Kempeitei.)
     
    #135 prophet of doom, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
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  16. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Sorry if CB's background continues to draw inspiration from contemporary society. We can discuss and disagree whether that is appropriate, but the least you can do is not make lazy broadbrush strokes about how that defines entire factions in the universe.
     
  17. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I consider the usage of Kempeitai to be entirely appropriate now, based on the fluff spoiled in the BoW JSA unboxing video.

    But I'm not entirely sure I'd call militant State Shinto fascist.