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Why has CB split JSA from YJ?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by prophet of doom, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I hear this is changing by integrating them more and more with the actual police. (To my girlfriend's dismay, Gendarmerie you could trust to act with honour)
     
  2. Aldo

    Aldo Trying to detox from being a lorefag

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    In Spain we don't have that problem.

    Police and military are equally untrustworthy.
     
  3. sarf

    sarf Well-Known Member

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    Well, then be my guest))) Please, show me that you`re not ignorant by naming insulting label on ukranians, without using Google, of course)))) No cheating here))
     
  4. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Until around 10 years ago they were under the responsability of the ministry of defense, now they are under the same ministry as police. Since then, Police and Gendarmerie are more similar

    Still they are military with specific rules (they and their familiy lives in he Gendarmerie barracks for example), mission (specific mission like high mountain gendarmerie or specific corps like the republican guard) and equipement the police have not. They also have a military status instead of a simple civil servant status like he police.

    Finally, they can be send out of the country as part of a military operation, under UN, EU or France "banner". Right now for example there are Gendarme in Lebanon, Congo, Haiti, Mali....
     
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  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Problem isn't ignorance, problem is the hostility when said ignorance is dispelled.
     
  6. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Your opinion, don't generalize.
     
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  7. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    Right. To support what Hecaton and Mahtamori are saying:

    Ignorance is understandable. We don't know everything about the world. If you and I were talking about a new TAK release, and I used a term that was insulting to Ukranians but didn't know it was insulting, then I hope you'd tell me about it and give me more information. I would apologize for giving offense, tell you about how the term is used in my country, and then we could talk more about it.

    However, if my response was "fuck you, I don't care, I'll use any term I want, and I'm not going to stop using it" then that's unacceptable.
     
  8. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Life isn't this simple. The street goes two ways.

    How the person offended by the term treats the action is just as important to what the reaction is. too many people feel like being offended suddenly absolves them if they end up being ignorant assholes back.

    In your example, if I was talking to someone about TAk and said something offensive about ukrainians, but it was a common phrase in my culture and sarf just told me it's offensive and just to never say it again. That's pretty tactless, and isn't compromising what so ever.

    You're pretty much asking someone to consider your feelings while ignoring how they might feel about suddenly having to change something they've always done, the term might even have fond memories.

    I'm not saying that you shouldn't, but people who feel offended would get a ton more traction in my opinion if they didn't start the conversation from a superior position and telling the other person they are ignorant and now must change.
     
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  9. alchahest

    alchahest Active Member

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    I think that having fond memories of a word doesn't really trump someone having harsh associations with it. If my racist grandparents used the N word constantly but were otherwise very kind to me, and I have fond memories of them, and I grew up saying it, without realising the way it could effect people, and someone told me that the word had offended them, am I then in the right to get mad and say "well I always say it so it's not offensive" or should I just consider this a learning experience and do what I can to try to accommodate the target of that slur, and not use it going forward?

    To be clear, is it your suggestion that you should get a pass to continue using the slur, just because you're used to saying it, and not have to consider the feelings of the people whom the term is used to denigrate?
     
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  10. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    By term do you mean accidentally using a slur or do you mean pronouncing the name of a horrible war criminal that did great evil against Ukranians ?

    Once you know a word is a slur, I would hope you would stop using it. But I don't see why you should stop naming your RPG character with the same name as an anti-ukranian general just because you learned of what he did. Kempeitai is not a slur.

    That people have suffered greatly because of members of that unit doesn't make that unit's name an offensive word, even if hearing it cause them to remember painful memory. Plenty of wargames exist that use names of horrible WWII German units.
     
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  11. yojamesbo

    yojamesbo purchaser of car seats

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    No, his position (as I understand it) was limited to the following: You don't have the right to be a jackass when you correct people who are not acting in bad faith (that's key), and that you're more likely to get what you want if you approach them as equals than if you talk down to them or issue unilateral demands.

    This is especially true on an international forum such as this where what is perceived as insulting may not be the same across different countries/regions/etc., and where there's a decent chance your interlocutor may not have encountered a previous discussion of said issue that occurred twelve pages earlier in a thread. If you just haul off and attack them for their use of the offending term, you run the real risk of having their response be, "get f*cked." None of this should be a surprise to anyone. If you do find it shocking (and I'm not saying you do), maybe you should get out more.
     
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  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    No, but misrepresenting them like the old PG-7 unit blurb is all sorts of problematic the bigger of a company you are. As in, there's a difference between you naming your character Pol Pot (who likes kittens and never gets angry) and CB naming their character Pol Pot (who likes kittens and never gets angry) and the POTUS renaming the Oval Office "the Pol Pot".

    What I'm getting at here is that there's a difference between slur and (historical) reference. I'm not saying having a character in Infinity called Pol Pot is a good idea, even if they'd conform to the historical original, because not only don't I think the setting needs to go Grim Dark, I also think copying real life and pop culture people is getting out of hand.
     
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  13. Kahlain

    Kahlain Greeble-Faust investigator

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    I have left forums over this exact issue. Let me be clear, I "offended" someone by going off topic. Not my intent: merely riffing with the rest of the band. Their response was to be an utter d-bag. Being offended does not elevate a person to the moral high-ground, nor gve them the right to go after the "offensive" person.

    We all should strive to be respectful. We are here due a shared interest. Yet we all have vastly different experiences and (potentially) vastly different cultural assumptions and baggage.

    So, when someone annoys you, please politely ask them if that was their intent.
     
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  14. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Out of curiosity, is it offensive to abbreviate the word Japanese in the languages of other nations that were not brutally attacked by Japan?
     
  15. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Abbreviating the word Japanese down to a slur was racist before Japan attacked anyone, it was racist during it, and it was racist afterwards. It's a racial slur, it's whole usage is racist. That's how slurs work. Doesn't really matter what the word is in other languages, whether it's shortened or not. It's a racial slur. That's not something that people get to choose the definition of! Words mean things whether you like it or not.
     
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  16. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Cool it, I'm just trying to understand. I disagree that a word's meaning is independent of the context and intention with which it is used. If someone is getting upset by the word "Jap" it's not that hard to stop using it out of politeness, but if someone else is accustomed to using the word as something other than a slur (eg they are not North American or Japanese), telling them they can't use a word they always used without malice is a bit like telling them they can't use a third of their profiles in their vanilla army anymore.

    P.S.

    upload_2018-3-19_9-49-7.png
    upload_2018-3-19_9-48-37.png
     
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  17. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Jap tends to be viewed as derogatory but different parts of America will ignore whats offensive. Heck, we got a sports team called the red skins.
     
  18. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Fun fact, I'm not North American or Japanese, so it turns out you don't need to be from either of those places to know that it's a slur. It's not something where we need to be looking for free passes for people to use these words. It's offensive! If you (general you, not specific) don't know it's offensive and use it unwittingly, apologise and don't do it again, it's that simple.
     
  19. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    That's just absurd, it doesn't mean the same thing to [hypothetical me] that it does to you. Not using it because it offends you is a courtesy to you.

    Apparently it's more than a little unpopular with English speaking Japanese, and we should probably take their word for it as to how it would be received by Japanese who cannot speak or read English (although how would they be aware of it or recognize it?).

    upload_2018-3-19_10-16-51.png
     
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  20. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    it's worth noting that searching for usage of the word "Jap" gets you about a page of results on the forums, while "El Japos" (as opposed to the more correct El japonés) gets you 10 pages.

    If you really want to wage a war on racial slurs against the Japanese the English section of the forums isn't where you need to be.
     
    the huanglong likes this.