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Why don't my pan-O opponents use hacking?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by SaladSnek, Mar 31, 2023.

  1. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    Imagine playing literally all your games versus Nomads, facing literally the same matchup every game, but still not having tools in your list to deal with that matchup. :thinking_face:
     
  2. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Or just don’t try and out-Hack them, as has been mentioned once or twice. That Moran-o-Terror can’t do much if he’s been perforated by a Karhu, or Grenaded away by a Squalo or KoS, or blasted by an Echo-Bravo’s WildParrot, or is pinned by a Bolt’s Drop Bear…
     
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  3. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I don't know dice are dice, I have seen Jazz miss both of her pitchers, I have seen my Ye Mao Killer hacker attacking the enemies Daoying Lt directly and get a critical in the face.

    Of course luck, or lack of it, is no strategy to live by, but nothing is 100% reliable on the table.

    Frankly I feel pitchers reliability is vastly exaggerated here.
     
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  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Sometimes it feels like that. You can look at some terrain setups and missions realize that your opponent has a massive unearned advantage (or that you do.)
     
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  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    About what? The camo Moran existed in Army in the leadup to N4 dropping. The comment about the design team is my interpretation of how they've handled balance in N4, and how the attention to different factions is very uneven.
     
  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    If you're not using hacking than any points you've spent on hacking are wasted.
     
  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    What are the probabilities of those things happening?
     
  8. PhDeezNutz

    PhDeezNutz Well-Known Member

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    There are positions to gain LoF on these corners, usually from behind them or on the same piece of terrain. By protected, I mean protected from >50% of the table. If you can see into the corner from you DZ, then it is not, by this definition protected. This is not exclusive to rooftops either, they just tend to be the worst offenders; a corner in a wall or interior of a building can be just as much of an issue. It is not exclusive to the midfield, as these terrain features are the same that allow for hiding hackers and misslebots in the DZ.

    This is where the discussion takes us: The videos I linked show examples of the current default style of table. This style of table is considered ideal by most players and tournament organizers. This style of table disproportionally favors strong hacking lists and GML alpha strikes. PanO struggles to take advantage of these strategies. PanO suffers in the tournament scene and the kitchen table scene, and players are left disgruntled. Eventually, disgruntled players leave the game.
     
  9. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Is that a problem of terrain setups?

    If you are not using close combat any points you spend in close combat are wasted, if you are not shooting any points spend in shooting are wasted, or, the list is a toolbox to be used as needed, when needed.
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    A lot of people don't have the tools in their sectorial to do so; maybe you could tailor a list, but it would inhibit your ability to play against anyone else.

    And, again, this is where the disrespect and mockery comes in. Very common from people who carry water for CB on this forum.
     
  11. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    At the minimum 5% unfortunate, but it happens.

    Pitchers are at +3 8-16 -3 16-24 if one has an uncontested direct fire to the enemies deployment zone I think it is an issue with the player if not, speculative fire lowers the success number a lot.
     
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  12. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    No, it's a problem with the game when the game makes it so that shuffling some terrain around, or putting barriers on the edges of rooftops, makes it so that one faction/archetype has a massive unearned advantage.



    Actually not the case - because with those sometimes your opponent has to work around them. There's plenty of times when someone can't safely go into, say, an objective room full of Domaru. Sure, you don't actually roll your CC attack, but the fact that you invested in it gave you a leg up.

    This is not the case with hacking against a superior hacking faction. The fact that you invested in it gave *them* a leg up because your army is less efficient and you made it easier for them to kill your troops.
     
  13. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I need to stress out that people not sharing your point of view are neither mocking you or CB shills, you really need to relax a bit...
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I do it with Kerr-nau in OCF all the time. Firing a pitcher 32" with Kerr-nau is 2 dice on 9's, pretty good chance of succeeding (About 70%). And it's not like people are long-bombing single pitcher shots *too* often without massive bonuses like full core fireteams - a FastPanda can deliver that with very little chance of failing across the table, especially coming from the Heckler we've talked about.
     
  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    They're definitely mocking me. Just go back and read the posts. You've had multiple people explain that to you, especially in the case of @A Mão Esquerda . They're also doing it on critposting, I'm sure. There are plenty of toxic little twits in the community who can't actually back up their points and so resort to that when they can't win an argument.
     
  16. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Fast Panda delivery is more or less the Heckler.
     
  17. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    This is satire, because every argument you give is entirely black and white and most of what you post is no-nuance doomsaying.

    You keep giving strictly Vanilla-Nomad centric answer when the question has nothing to do with it, my comment is also entirely Nomad-Centric and just shows that it's silly.

    It's as valid as all your other comment concerning how Nomad trivialises PanO.

    If Nomad Hacking is always the answer as to why PanO suck, when not taking anti-Nomad exclusive tech is just as valid of an argument (it's not, both are silly).
     
  18. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Crtiposting and Twitter are not part of the forum, though my assumption about critposting is that it is a facebook group that its main purpose is to "shitpost for the lols" if that group bothers you I would suggest to ignore it.
     
  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    When they're specifically insulting me or other people, it goes beyond that. It's just someone's little clique; it's not really about humor, but rather in-group signaling.
     
    #379 Hecaton, May 3, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2023
  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Right. You're saying that like it somehow means that it doesn't matter...?

    I also notice that you didn't respond to the point where someone criticized your assessment of one of the tables.
     
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