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Why does Stratuscloud have the Disposable trait if it can't be activated a second time anyway?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by meikyoushisui, May 14, 2019 at 9:22 PM.

  1. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Well-Known Member

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    The Stratuscloud state contains the following language in its cancellation section:

    If this is the case, why does it possess the disposable trait? There are two possible explanations.

    1) The disposable trait does nothing and should be removed from the equipment.

    2) The cancellation clause is only partially true and needs additional language to show so. It is possible that the intent of the rules is that if you voluntarily cancel the state (third bullet point of the cancellation section) you cannot activate it again without reloading it. I think this is unlikely, but it's the only reason that Stratuscloud would have the disposable trait. But since the state says you cannot enter it again, reloading your Stratuscloud doesn't make a difference, you still can't enter into the state, as more specific rule that contradicts this doesn't exist.

    Is there something I am missing here?
     
  2. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    my guess is that it is there as a reminder that it is a one-time only. without it, it would still be a one time effect. but with it, it then is more visible in the stat line.
     
  3. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that has the opposite effect -- implies it can be reloaded, like any other disposable equipment.
     
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  4. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    @meikyoushisui no argument that could be worded better. From the rules, the Activation Condition and the fact that there is a Stratuscloud State and Skill with the same name it should be pretty clear that Stratuscloud can be activated after reloading.

    What you can't do is toggle the State on and off (during the same turn) by itself. To (re)enter Statuscloud (State) you need the Statuscloud Skill with a remaining charge.
     
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  5. GrantC

    GrantC Active Member

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    So.. You can or can't reload it (and use it again)?
     
  6. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Would suggest a last minute change like the tri-core.

    Edit:
    And No, you can't reload it.
     
  7. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Of course you can reload it:
    • Moreover, if the bearer of Baggage is in base to base contact with a friendly trooper in the Unloaded state, or who has used part of his Disposable weapons or pieces of Equipment, and spends one Short Skill of the Order, it will cancel such state allowing him to recover the complete use of all his Disposable weapons and pieces of Equipment. This effect can only be applied to one friendly trooper per Order.
    The question is whether you can use it again after being reloaded.
    My guess is that you can,
    but that you can not switch it on and off during its activation period.
     
  8. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Well-Known Member

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    You can use a baggage bot to reload it, because it has the disposable trait. The question is what you have in parenthesis -- does the clause in the cancellation state mentioned in the original comment prevent you from reactivating it even if reloaded? Common sense says yes, but the RAW says no.
     
  9. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    i think you cannot reactivate it, because you are the same player as the one that activated it prior and it says The player can only activate this state once.
     
  10. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    So, the other way round...
    This means, as long as it is not cancelled, you CAN activate it again.

    So deploy with this state active, and during your first turn reload it with a baggage trooper and activate it a second time,
    preferable during the second turn (either active if you go second or as ARO).
    When the first cloud ends, you still have your second one till the end of the next turn!

    Hm. Will this even work again (and again)...?
    Like, as long as you have this state active (=not cancelled),
    can you activate it another time if you got reloaded?
     
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  11. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Well-Known Member

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    This is insanely roundabout and a highly doubt this is the intent of the rules.
     
  12. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    What happens when you attempt to activate Stratus Cloud a second time, while it is already activated?

    A trooper/model/thing/whatever-you-want-to-call-it can't be in the same state multiple times. (Cf. Possessed and what happens if multiple players use Overlord sequentially on the same model. Note the distinction between that and the rules which create two different Unconscious states that a model can be in.) Stratuscloud is a game state. So attempting to activate the Stratuscloud effect while it is already activated will produce no effect.

    If you activated it, reloaded the trooper, waited until the Stratuscloud state expired, and then attempted to activate it again, there's no difference between that and

    • Activate Stratus cloud
    • Wait for it to expire
    • Reload
    • attempt to re-activate it
    You're arguing about the same bullet point
    • Once this state is cancelled, the player cannot activate it again.
     
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  13. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Can you please show me what makes you think that this is the case?
    The only thing I can find indicates the opposite:

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Game_States
     
  14. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    By that same 3rd point... If I have 2-3 models with Strauscloud, RAW I am forced to activate them all in the same turn, because the cancellation wording is absolute, and regarding the player.
    So I cannot, for example, activate 1 stratocloud with one of these guys each of my turns, since when I'm going to activate the second, the first has been cancelled by the end of the previous turn (duration clause)...
     
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