Since we're just throwing ideas out there, what about Breaker HMG? That would make him truly unique within YJ and be a natural extension of the IA breaker pistols.
Doesn't fix the problem of he's a shit Shang Ji, that's a unique gun not a unique role. Shang Ji brings Tinbot and TacAw to his link, Gao either needs to outcompete that or do something different. For obvious reason one upping a Shang Ji is a shit idea so he needs to do something else for the fireteam. Drop the HMG down to a combi, put +1B on it if you feel spicy. But to make him do something different put a Mine Dispenser on him. Congratulations, he now actually provides something to a link and as an added bonus you even made the underplayed Pango FTO profile more appealing at the same time.
True, I was not thinking about the FT angle in IA, more from a Vanilla point of view. As for fire teams, that could also be solved via a special skill for a bespoke fire team, similar to the tarlok FT bonus: "If fireteam X contains Captain Quiang Gao, all fireteam X members are considered to have the Y skill." This would give credit to him being a special character that commands respect among the IA and possibly add a skill to the FT that is not to be gained otherwise.
No, but it would make Yan Huo obsolete and violate the fluff ... so far. So yes, Shang Ji is a bit cheating on a good way
This thread is wild from beginning to end. 5 different units are basically the exact same thing. Now the new super stacked profile is being noted as a specialist who can do something more than push a button but Qian Gao is just the worst. You guys need to play a different faction.
Care to try backing up those statements with an actual argument or were you just making a poor attempt at some flamebait?
Could you please stick to the topic when trolling at least? Bixie wasn't revealed when I made the topic and Bixie is not part of the topic. Yes, Gao isn't either, nor is Shang-Jisus, but at least they're tangentially related.
Gao is literally the topic. The complaints about Gao are he's the same as a Shang Ji but just worse at his job. Try again.
I mean, technically he isn't. He's got the same issue as the topic, but I was aiming for the structural part of the factions rather than the embellishments so to speak. In my opinion he's one of CB's kind of too many characters who don't expand on anything; Bipandra isn't overpriced anymore but she's still dull as heck, Konstantinos isn't at all special in PanO, Yasbir's trying to do Fiday's job with worse tools and higher cost, and a few others. CB's been fixing a few of them, but there's a lot of work left to do.
And that doesn't happen in other threads? Must not have been here long. I'll admit some should have their own thread though. just for the sake of being more clear. If it will make people happy, I'll make a thread about Bixie. Someone can dig up the Gao thread from grave. Lt. 2 Vet in WB screams who is the Lt. In IA why take him when you can have a Daoying? The same for Vanilla really. The only guy being veteran is ok but not a game changer ECM is pretty cool. It can stack if he's in a team with Tinbot I believe. In Vanilla, I wouldn't take him.
None of those skills translate into a valuable package that lets him take the Shang Ji's spot in a list. Tinbot -6 is better than ECM -3, and LT2 doesn't actually end up giving you more orders compared to TacAw. You end up with a net -1 order in IA/Vanilla, and the same amount in WB compared to taking the Shang Ji in any of those situations. Combined with the fact the Shang Ji has the better weapon loadout it just winds up being a total no brainer that Gao never gets used.
Sounds like a tourist looking to visit the salt mines that's disappointed that there wasn't as much drama as he had hoped for. Bixie and Qiang Gao are both examples of characters derivative of our '5 basic heavy infantry' models (more specifically, derivative of the one that works). One done well, one not so much. Yes, they could potentially be moved to different topics, bit they're both tangentially related to the core premise.
ooh boy, this is a topic close to my heart. Its something about yu jing that has bothered me for awhile, and only become more acute with the release of IA and then N4. So lore-wise, Yu Jing have honed the design and manufacture of infantry armour to a fine point. So much so that the ethos is they can have armour so readily available, you can clad your most basic troops in it. The marketing on it being the state empire cares deeply for their citizens, and will protect them. Economically, I see Yu Jing as a faction which probably offers resurrection as a boon of service to the empire. Investing in better protection probably makes $$ sense compared to resurrecting troops. CB design ethos still strongly clings to HI as the elite of a faction. These conflicting approaches just seem painfully apparent as we churn out yet another high 20s to low 40s high stat dude with ARM and W to try give yu jing the facade of being the "HI faction". The fix can be awfully simple, but while I'm wishlisting I might as well roll out the gold plated option. So before I get to the specific solution, there are a couple wider things I think needs to change. Frenzy, hackable and shock immune + NWI. Frenzy - halve this discount this brings. In the age of N4 and the reduced cost of ARM, a disadvantage to ARM shouldn't still come with such a steep discount. Lets say for math purposes this is 6 points (I don't actually know exactly) so half is 3 points. Hackable - buuut, take the half discount of frenzy and give it to hackable. so 3 points. This would bring a few things more in line, like the sombra and zhencha. Shock immune - give this a cost, maybe 1-2 points on units with multiple wounds (including NWI) and free for 1W troops. This balances the hackable discount. Troops who are not hackable but functionally perform the same now pay for the pleasure. Zuyong: Take a zhanshi, put them into heavy armour. 10 point basic, +1BS, +1PH, add NWI, and maybe shock immune... Without shock immune I'd see this costing as little as 16-18 points. 4-4 BS12 PH12 WIP13 ARM3 BTS0 W1.9 You can then add line infantry bits, hacker with SMG, paramedic, BSG and FO. These form the basics for your fireteams and should easily fit within a 15 troop cap, especially with the supplementation of tac aware and NCO. Heavy infantry and characters in faction can then build from here. Haidao: +1BS and +3BTS and few choice kits. MSV2, engineer, killer hacker. Maybe shock immune. These become slightly spec-op zuyong really, sitting nicely in the low 20s. Maybe add tac aware/NCO or tinbots here. 4-4 BS13 PH12 WIP13 ARM 3 BTS3 W1.9 Wu Ming: take the basic profile and provide some assault flavour, +1Arm, +1PH, shock immune, and switch out for short range weapons and grenades, maybe tinbots but depending on fireteams. Maybe give these guys frenzy too. These guys would sit maybe slightly cheaper than a zuyong but decidedly short range only. You wouldn't mix these in a fireteam. 6-2 BS12 PH13-14 WIP13 ARM4 BTS0 W1.9 Jujaks could be similar to Haidao but with a white banner slant - flame weapons, immune: continuous. Shang-Ji then sit comfortably as the elite heavies and I wouldn't change much about them. This might change some characters, starting at a different basepoint. But a lot of the more elite HI and characters wouldn't change much at all.
A small note is that Shang-Ji are more or less somewhere in the OR-5 to OR-1 equivalent Zuyong officers so the actual NCO Zuyongs would pretty much be in line with being Shang-Ji and probably access to the same gear as Shangers which would also explain their significantly improved stats. I'd also note that the civilian sector is cost driven; prices on gear is an investment in future profits while military investment in gear are consumables. As such, Jujaks being civilian equipment doesn't necessarily mean they have to have below military grade protection, it's entirely possible that these are not bad armours as such. Maybe they don't have the operational range of Zuyong armours, but they could have protections that the military wouldn't invest in. What if we instead of interpreting a blast furnace as being literal fire that it is omni-directional harm and instead of Immunity to continuous (which would protect against attacks that's also not actually fire) but instead offered immunity against templates (there's no real chinks in their armour, you have to directly penetrate it not just saturate the area near them)? Probably with vulnerability E/M, of course.
