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Why are YJ the sole human bad guys?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Dichotomedes, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Dichotomedes

    Dichotomedes New Member

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    Newbie here, and maybe I've missed some fluff. From what I can tell, and the prose that CB uses to describe YJ leads me to think that CB doesn't see non-Westernized orientals as humans. Statements like (and I'm paraphrasing here because I don't have the book handy), "a system so depraved only the Chinese could come up with it," or something. Like, seriously? Is there something in the Chinese genome that makes them predisposed to horrific corruption?

    What about, "torture so excruciating, only the Spanish could conceive of it?"

    I hope I'm wrong and that I just got a bad first impression. As an American, I love the cute European stereotypes of our culture in USAriadna.
     
    #1 Dichotomedes, Feb 18, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
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  2. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    All the factions have dark elements.

    PanO is so rediculously hypercapialist that the government is little more than a collection of lobbyist groups, the Hexahedron have almost complete control over the military with no real oversight of their own activities, and those who are too poor to keep up with constant technological advancements and updates are essentially treated as non-human, not to mention enslavement of an alien race.

    Nomads vary from mad scientists with no regard for ethics or morals, to mafia dons, to spacing people that can no longer work if there is no-one to pay for their air.

    Haqqislam has a veneer of scholarly humanism covering up state sponsored assassins (in the truest form of the word!) and the utter barbarity of the Kum clans.

    Ariadna are responsible for the genocide and enslavement of sentient aliens.

    Yu Jing tend to be cast as the primary baddies as they've been second place to PanO since the game existed of only their two starter boxes, they also vary in their depictions from Uprising where the Imperial Service is portrayed as an evil secret police force crushing rebels under their Jackbooted heel, to 3rd Offensive showing the Invincible Army as an honorable force fighting to protect their nation from outside agression, proud of their way of life and willing to defend it at all costs.
     
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  3. Dichotomedes

    Dichotomedes New Member

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    Right. Every faction is super cool with dark elements. YJ is super evil with...not as evil elements (namely the Japanese)?
     
  4. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    One thing to remember is that the overwhelming majority of the fluff is written as “in universe”, not as a detached observer. PanO doesn’t like YJ (or anyone else for that matter) so bits written by PanO sources will be biased. YJ source writing about PanO will be the same. Read in 3rd Offensive about the extraordinary efforts the various divisions of the Invincible Army went to to save, protect, and evacuate any and all civilians caught in the path of the Combined Army’s offensive.

    Edit: One of the benefits about the way the books are written is that you have source for all of the material quoted at the end.
     
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  5. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Not really

    The IS are super evil, Judge Dredd style authoritarian "peacekeepers" whose higher ranked members are judge, jury, and executioners. But the IS don't represent Yu Jing as a whole.

    The Invincible Army are good guys, they fight honorably for their beliefs and their people.

    The Japanese aren't part of Yu Jing at all any more, that was the outcome of the Uprising book which also described the depravity the IS was capable of. Not that the new Japanese state is described as a Utopia mind you, if anything it's even more classist than the State Empire and has it's own shadowy police force, plus there's all the deals they had to make during the Uprising just waiting to come back and bite them.
     
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  6. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    As @A Mão Esquerda pointed out, the background for infinity is done as if articles from news sources, files of enemies, or even as propaganda. Each faction talks glowingly about themselves but makes villains of the enemy. It took me a while to figure this out. A PanO news source about the Uprising is not going to say anything positive or just misses the positive because of their personal bias. The ones that might be most factual (notice i didn't say truthful) are ones that are reports to superior officers.
     
  7. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    It's not that YJ are the sole human bad-guy.
    It's that there AREN'T any "good guys" in the game, period. It's all greyish to black, like a teen goth colour scheme.
     
  8. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    Don't worry, there's always guys with "enslaved, raised-as-psychopaths brains-in-vats" to make sure ISS never gets higher than second spot on that list.
     
    #8 Nemo No Name, Feb 18, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
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  9. Aldo

    Aldo Trying to detox from being a lorefag

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    So what you're saying is that Hollow Men were introduced so Yu Jing would keep being the second-best-at-everything faction?

    It does check out. Hell, being the second best/first loser is such an important part of their character that its part of the faction description.

    Just how sad is that, tho? The most compelling thing CB could think about to write for Yu Jing is "they are the second best, lololol so funny"
     
  10. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    Nah, even without Hollowmen Nomads still lead in terms of lack of ethical concerns. Take Morlocks - or Kuang Shi by any other name. "From that moment onwards, that individual will add something positive to the ship."
    There's plenty of other examples in the Nomad lore, except it's rarely clearly laid out. Hollowmen are just pretty clear to almost everyone :D (I'm still expecting some Nomad player to come and argue :D )
     
  11. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Let's call it "different ethics".
    I am not sure how that 'social energy' works, but it is 'something different'.
    And for YJ: This is a culture where the individual is less important than the whole - which is quite different to our western view, but might explain some actions that we might call 'unethical'.
     
  12. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    I'm not talking about that. In fact, personally I' into that "communal" culture in general (specifics might differ). However, Nomad nations condone all sorts of activities that are expressly unethical. As most clearly evidenced by Hollowmen, but there's a whole slew of other thing.

    And it all makes sense within their worldview. Tunguska is driven by pure capitalism, while Corregidor is all about survival of the strong. Bakunin on the other hand expressly devolves this to individual modules, which means that some modules might be okay, but also means others can be as unethical as they like (Black Labs of Praxis), and this basically means Bakunin is unethical as a whole since it expressly tolerates this.

    Anyway, I don't want to derail this topic anymore. XD
     
  13. Soter

    Soter Active Member

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    I think the "problem" with Yu Jing is that the moral duality that all Infinity factions have is much more emphasized in this case: you basically have the Imperial Service, who are essentially grimdark policemen, and the Invincible Army who are noblebright soldiers. But since Uprising came before Third Offensive the ugly part f Yu Jing has had more impact than the noblebright one, and also because it was more needed for the story. Ariadna´s hipocrisy with "stop colonialism" while at the same time genociding the native population of Dawn is not central to any story in Infinity and therefore has not received the same level of attention even though it may be even worse than what Imperial Service does.

    Having said this, what brought me to Infinity is precisely a fluff where the future is not distopian or postapocalyptic, but in which humanity has improved... with all their faults and double morals (they are still human after all) but it is refreshing to finally have a setting for a game in which I would actually like to live.
     
  14. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Not having good or bad guys is kind of what makes Infinity realistic. In the real world we have people that do evil things believing they are good and doing the right thing. We also have bad people who do good things ultimately to help themselves. Though I have had hopes that humanity would have risen above some of the things described.
     
  15. Aldo

    Aldo Trying to detox from being a lorefag

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    Assuming you didn't know that the CA was going to stomp across the blockades and conquer everything at some relatively close point, yeah, I guess you would.
     
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  16. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    YJ Definately aren't the sole human bad guys but they have been the focus recently thanks to Uprising. The Imperial service are nasty, nasty pieces of work under the direct control of the Emperor and the state empire intelligence services but they are offset by the far larger voulenteer only Invincible Army who are controlled by the Party, YJ has the largest middle class and IIRC the highest average standard of living in the human sphere. (from 3rd offensive from a haqquislamite perspective)

    Comparatively Pano society is entirely hypercapitalist and even the good guy knights are fighting on behalf of the Neocatholic banks and screwing each other over (see the Templar order)

    The only faction that could be argued as "all good" is Aleph which acts in humanities best interest even when those humans don't want friend computer inserting itself into their lives like a more invasive and judgemental microsoft word paper clip, and Aleph has a sectorial led by a kill frenzy leave no survivors computer generated NPC.
     
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  17. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

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    Gr8 b8 m8. 10/10
     
  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    At a certain point, though, that becomes a motte-and-bailey argument on the part of the author, where they're saying a bunch of stuff to create a tone but then saying "I didn't mean it!" when the racist implications of it are pointed out.
     
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  19. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    That was my reaction too.
     
  20. SpecOP6903

    SpecOP6903 Member

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    Aren't the forces of the EI and Ariadna the only good guys and everyone else the 'baddies'?
    Ariadnans got lost and stranded and are in self preservation mode mostly.
    The EI were just chilling when all these ships turn up and start moving in, upsetting the natural habitats etc etc... Aleph and neo humans are the invaders, tohaa aggressive interlopers who see a good opportunity to get one over on the EI, nomads are space gypsies that just wanna do their thing....
     
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