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Who should I bring with Szalamandra?

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by MAlgol, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    IMM 1 can be removed with Reset. However, only an Engineer can remove Isolation.

    IMM 1 can still be really hard to get out of because if they remain in a hacking area their Reset to get out will be F2F with the hacker.
     
  2. WiseKensai

    WiseKensai Rogue Interventor
    Warcor

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    Huh. And here I thought I knew what all the hacking programs did. Noted and filed! Oblivion all the time for days!

    Yeah. That makes me very happy, but my opponent usually very frustrated. I will say though, the one weakness of this strategy is sometimes I'm relying on my Moran do to some midfield specialist work, which isn't going to happen if he's stuck on a roof without stairs somewhere.

    If you see me stick a Moran FO on a roof, its likely that he's not making it down to push any buttons, so if you focus down my other specialists I'm in a pickle. Thankfully, the upgrade to FO is only 1 point more, but really the cost is not being able to push a critical button Turn 3 'cause I'm stuck on a building.
     
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  3. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Well, in scenarios like Acquisition (which was the one we were playing), with the central thingie in the middle of the tallest building... While I agree with the "place the talles building in the middle to break sniper's LoF" suggestion, in this kind of missions it makes it either too costly to get that box or outright impossible.
     
  4. MAlgol

    MAlgol I couldn't tackle the bear

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    A lot of interesting thoughts here, a lot of use of hackers it seems. Might be my lack of experience but it seems like list without a lot of Repeaters or things that need protection from enemy hackers I really don't need that many. Sure I need to protect Szally but unless I have a Repeater following her around there isn't much all them hackers can do.
    I'm thinking that a large part of my order will go to Szally for moving her around and shooting.

    Found something I made a few month ago when I first thought about adding Szally to my lists.
    No smoke, a lot of Zondbots with Zoe to keep Szally in working order, Zeros with Minelayers and a Lunokhod to prevent fast movement and then Reactive Zonds to cover her with HMG. Pi-well can run around with a repeater and Observe & Triangulate.

    What holes to I have in this list?

    [​IMG] Szalamandra Mk1
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA Hyper-rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 90)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender / Pistol, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] ZOE & PI-WELL . (0 | 47)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] ZOE (Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Stop!) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] PI-WELL Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] INTERVENTOR Hacker (Killer Device Plus UPGRADE: Lightning) Boarding Shotgun, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] INTERVENTOR Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] WILDCAT Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Well, my point was that the Szalamander is the Nomad tag who needs less hacking suport (but it's useful to have it anyway!).

    The list you place there... I'd change 2 zondbots and one Reaktion zond for a Tsyklon, and one Zero for the one with Repeaters. Aside from that, I see little room for change, but remember to use Cybermask on your H+ Interventor before finishing your turn, so the enemy will think it's your Lt.
     
  6. MAlgol

    MAlgol I couldn't tackle the bear

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    Excellent.
    Damn, one point away from a Feuerbach, that's annoying.
     
  7. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Well, you can upgrade the H+ interventor to 25 points so he can be a Lt, and place a Spitfire Tsyklon (go to the middle of the table with Marksmanshi n2 and Sup Fire Away!), and it goes to 299/5.0 CAP.

    Now, if you want to play it by another way... change the Wildcat Lt and the Assault hacking interventor to H+ Lt, and place a 10 points Alguacil on the table. You can now choose to get the Feuerbach Tsyklon, or keep the Spitfire Tsyklon and get a second servitor. Hide the Alguacil under a rock!

    [​IMG] Szalamandra Mk1
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA Hyper-rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 90)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender / Pistol, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] ZOE & PI-WELL . (0 | 47)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] ZOE (Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Stop!) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] PI-WELL Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] INTERVENTOR Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] TSYKLON Spitfire, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 31)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    As long as the Zero is not identified as a minelayer, the Alguacil can be counted as a Lt option, thus makign it possible for him or the two Interventors.
     
  8. WiseKensai

    WiseKensai Rogue Interventor
    Warcor

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    Sorry to revisit this, I just had a funny feeling about Oblivion being used against Morans, so I looked it up. The requirements are that: "The target must be an enemy with the Hackable Characteristic (HI, TAG, REM...) or an enemy Hacker."

    Morans themselves aren't hackable, but are vulnerable to Blackout: "The target must carry a piece of Equipment with the Comms Equipment Trait (Hacking Device, Repeater, Sniffer...). The target of this Hacking Program need not have the Hackable Characteristic."

    So you do need to use Blackout on a Moran, and cannot use Oblivion. Drat. I was hoping to just spam Oblivion on everyone!
     
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  9. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    It's not a Jammer!
     
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  10. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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  11. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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  12. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    Reset is a normal skill, Reboot on the other hand improves Reset by adding a -3 MOD that the TAG otherwise would not have had. If you dicecalc hacking a TAG and hacking a TAG under the effect of Reboot, you'll notice the latter TAG have an increased probability of resisting the hacking.
     
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  13. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Without Reboot:
    18.93% Scylla Possesses Maruts
    51.75% Maruts Resets vs. Scylla

    With Reboot:
    13.86% Scylla Possesses Maruts
    60.00% Maruts Resets vs. Scylla

    You're empirically- and factually wrong by provable math. I'm baffled as to why you would actually begin arguing semantics, rather than just admit "Oh hey, I forgot about that program...".
     
  14. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    No way! If you even temporarily forget just one of the billions of abilities in the game I banish thee to newbie purgatory. I'm sure I never let hackable troops walk by repeaters. I've definitely never completely forgotten about one of my AD guys until after the match. :yum:
     
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  15. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I Totally forgot about Reboot being a program, and I was reading it as another wording of "Reset". That being said, I've still to deploy an EVO in my Aleph lists, while Nomads (and to a little lesser degree than then PanO and YJ), and now EC, get a much higher mileage from it.
     
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  16. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Right, back on topic:

    I am not a fan of the limited insertion format on any Nomads sectorials, other than a core Riot Grrl link in Bakunin. The only Armies I've had success with in such a format is ISS and Onyx, as they have heavy order efficient elite units, more than capable of punching their own weight.
    It goes without saying, that you should build your list around a TAG and the reason I dislike the Limited insertion format for Nomads and TAG's, is because, unlike other factions, our TAG's are actually really good and really cheap for what they bring, which means that you actually have space for the rest of the army to be built around the TAG AND be able to be a bit more independent. Below is my former tournament list, which did excellent in all the games I fielded the list in 3/5 missions.


    [​IMG] Szally and friends
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9
    [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA Hyper-rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 90)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender / Pistol, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] SALYUT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] STEMPLER ZOND Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6)
    [​IMG] SPEKTR Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)

    5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The 1st combat group is rather self explanatory. Szally, Flash Pulses and Minelayer. to slow people down, and chain rifles to protect the flank. 2 stock decoy Alguacils for the Lt. (I've fallen off the Interventor Lt. because of the absurd dominance of Killerhackers. Literally a puny WIP12 Bandit with Surprise Attack have a higher chance of killing the Interventor, than the Interventor has of defending himself).

    The 2nd combat group is the most important group. The Spektr is absolutely necessary to deal with annoying threats and you're very likely to end up having to use command tokens to convert the Morlocks Irregular Order to get the job done. But I've yet to have a game were he have ever disappointed me. BS18 + Surprise attack + template + TO camo, is beyond disgusting, and perfect to deal with annoying long range ARO pieces that you are too afraid to loose the Szally too, or just suspect that you Szally won't be killing when any order efficiency (nothing is worse than having to spend several of orders to kill an insignificant target, because it has mimitism or worse). The Warbands are there to deal with people who are getting close, but their primary role is to provide an escort for your TAG, when he have to move to cover or cross open space, because it he can't Cautious move. If the there's nothing else for the Clockmaker, Spektr or the FO/Sensor REM to do, you could use your Reaktion Zond actively or merely re-position it with ease, with its Climbing Plus.
     
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  17. freefall357

    freefall357 Active Member

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    Just a quick input I didnt see while quickly skimming the above posts.

    A sensor option can be invaluable for TAG escort. I tend to run TAGs like WW2 tanks more than Rambo Mecha, but either way I would suggest a buddy Stempler every time. [irrelevant note: The TAG lets you bring REMs without needing a hacker!...because Nomads never bring hackers.......]

    The Sensor on board can quickly scout your route risking 17pts instead of 90pts (That 8in scan zone is kinda huge). It is as fast as the TAG and I can personally speak to the joy of hearing "um...my TO AssHack or HaxTao ML is right here in hidden deployment... *tear* "
    It can drop sniffers out of LoS to keep camo units from reentering marker state in thier ZoC speedbumbing camo-heavy armies and making the midfield that much safer.

    ALSO:

    It is a repeater so you can remotely bang on threats and equipment from safety or have a hacker un-POS your Sally before it murders everything you love.

    The Deactivator can clear mines, Facehugger Teddybombs, etc when you prefer to not just face-tank them with the 17pt bot.

    With Sat-lock you can reveal AND "targeted" a camo marker with one order (on 7s without EVO support, on 13s with!) http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Sat-Lock
    The +3BS on a heavy target pushes the odds in your favor before the TAG rounds the corner and obliterates it.

    It has a combi! That is close range firepower, combi-order (i see what I did there) assist for TAG-teaming the enemy TAG (PUNZ!) in a panic, it can cover your back...or more likely your side...and use suppression fire.

    lastly, it is a fast, climbing+ Forward Observer *LAZER RAVE! unce-unce-unce*
     
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  18. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I will improve on it... You can bring two 8 point Size 3 remotes with Sniffers, then do a coordinated order for the zeroes to plant a mine and the remotes the sniffers (since according to the last FAQ, you can move + "category order", or at least I think it is read that way), so you risk 16 points of a fast remote with mimetism and repeater, plant two spheres of "no recamo here" at 40-45cm from your side of the table, and then you can use the 17 points specialist remote to "pulse and decloack" on those areas. Pus, two more mines on the table XD
     
  19. freefall357

    freefall357 Active Member

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    I used to do something like this, replacing the Stempler with a Grenzer FO (I have some kind of Grenzer fetish, dont judge me!). The problem I found was the loss of orders when the enemy sneezes and the Transductors explode and the need for the CmdToken expenditure to pull off the turn-one super scout. Against armies without hidden things their value plummets further while the Stempler just pulls other duties(yeah, Trans can FO). I tend to go your Transductor route with a broader non-TAG list, the TAG is a more focused affair, in my experience. The Stempler/Sally team are similarly functional but with less models, that means more units in the group left for when everything goes wrong and you have to run the list like a normal, albeit 200pt, army. Moving the Trans into a second group with some ARO pieces and such also thinned out the list too much. I tried a lot of things to keep my sniffers in there (Fav Skill is Sensor). In playtesting though, the duo always performed better.
    When running a TAG I am fine with a far more secure TAG lane to get it up front and in my opponents face. Let them deal with digging the pair out while my remaining forces run fairly standard on the other objectives. I'll only rambo with it if the opportunity becomes available and furthers my main goal of getting objectives.

    Note to OP: PLZ support your TAG with more than only a Stempler, just think of those two as one unit/team.
     
  20. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Well, the idea is to not expose the Transductors, and use them to lock out of camos the assault route, but you don't need to cross the whole map. Also, since they are repeaters, they also provide hacking coverage. I'm quite used to "crystal speedsters", since the Dakinis are my backbone in generic Aleph, so the remotes are just... more of the same roadblock for the enemy ^^