It may be as you both say, but that does not mean that it seems absurd to me that the Army indicates some skills that the troop could not use. And especially considering that the skills are not fixed to the troop, for example Nissen in White Company it has Haris and in Svalarheima's Winter Force it has Haris and Core, which means that skills can be added to and removed from the troop in each army. If the troop can't use it, don't include it in their profile, because when making the lists you don't have to have the charts in front of you, you trust what the Army says.
To be honest, Nisses won't get much out of Haris in my opinion. The lone HMG Nisse has everything you need, now you just slap the Varangian onto him and have him shoot people from the rooftop through the smoke.
The important thing is not if Nisses wins or not with the Fireteam, the important thing is to know if I can trust the ARMY when it comes to knowing which troops have an skill or not, and if they have it if they can use it or not.
Currently, you cannot. Army has an absolute TON of bugs that they're still ironing out. Once everything is fixed, Army will match the sectorial charts. Until they finish fixing it, use the charts.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but can you please quote what they said and where they said it. Because the argument someone said something somewhere ... it's not an argument without a quote (I do not say it to create controversy, I simply want to have something to refer to those who, like me, are confused about the difference between the Sectorial Chart and the ARMY). Edit and add: Sorry for the offtopic. But it is important when creating lists to know if certain options are available or not. Because only in White Comapny there are four troops that the ARMY indicates can form some type of Fireteam that is not indicated on the Chart (and I suspect that the same happens in the rest of Sectorial Armies).
Confirmed, as the rulebook says on page 19 ... ... the ARMY is the official tool for creating army lists, so until the information in the official tool is modified, the Firetean skills indicated in that official tool are, well... official for use. Officially, nothing more to say on this matter.
Okay big man, we'll stop telling you your Nisse haris is illegal (even tho it totally is) Instead, let me give you a different argument. It's trash! So inefficient. Even with Valeria and a Hai Dao, I'd just rather get a Kaplan. A kaplan will be cheaper, almost as good and will get more variation in useful friends like Jujaks, CSUs and Liang kai.
A pity that your only argument is «because I say so». When we have an official clarification, it will seem correct to me whether it is one way or the other. Meanwhile, your opinion about whether it is a good Fireteam or not is absolutely irrelevant ... that is not the question here.
@Erland Hâkon I understand where you're coming from - I have had similar issues in other game systems where it's often a 'written in passing' or 'inherited' ruling that's not clearly specified etc, but 'everyone' who plays seem to know all about for fact. It's a tough one to swallow, especially when you can't find the bold bullet point ruling :) Luckily Infinity N4 currently appears to be actively managed, so if someone is suggesting something that's not clear and conflicts with the army software, might I suggest you add to the thread of bugs to seek an official response? Curiously the N4 Annex Rules Adaption (under N4 Downloads) mentions fireteams and refers to the "Sectorial Army List" on page 5 (where do the Annex rules come into things?). Would this be the Sectorial Charts in downloads until the Fireteams rulebook is made? In addition, it also reads "or have a Special Skill" to use Fireteams, which makes me wonder - I never was good at reading and interpreting rules the same way as others do.
ijw will have mentioned that the Sectorial Chart is the overriding reference document dozens of times over in the rules subforum, he's the one who does the English editing so it's the closest you'll get to official 90% of the time. I can agree that this whole issue could be clearer, though, since many players don't even know those Sectorial charts exist and they're not mentioned in official how-to-play material yet to my knowledge.
@infyrana Yes, the feeling that veterans have an arcane knowledge of the rules that no one else can possess is exasperating. Edit and add: For my part I stop adding more offtopic to this thread. I have already requested clarification from the Corvus Belli staff and until they answer it, I have nothing to add to the matter.
We have an official reply on this matter: With the mega change we are still setting profiles and tables, but when ITS starts, what will rule is the ARMY. ;)
I'll put my White Company army list in this White Complainy army thread (?) Ideas/roles behind the picks and general thoughts: Spoiler: Core fireteam Fusilier Core, because the shooting will be done by the HI MSV2 Sniper + HI HMG that synergize well with Smoke ammo from Varangians and White Noise from Danavas respectively. We also need a linked Hacker and Valerya is way better than a Fusilier (the Pitcher is a really nice tool to have). One Paramedic to bring back PH14 big boi HMG to life. If someone dies, the CSU can fill their shoes to get those 5-member bonuses back. Spoiler: Skirmishers I have AVA 2 Guilangs? I use AVA 2 Guilangs. I think having midfield hacking is a really good thing now, either with infiltrating specialists or a repeater network. I chose Hackers instead of BSG Minelayers for the button pushing. Spoiler: Warbands Varangians are good... I really don't have much more to say about them: cheap, resilient, duo-ing close quarter menaces. I don't think you should duo them, though. One of them will probably hang out close to the Haidao MSR while the other just varangiens around. Spoiler: REMs Fugazi is just a Flash Pulse-holding cheap order that comes with a Repeater and the Mulebot is there to refill Pitchers if needed, basically. However the Peacemaker has a more important, dual role: it works as a stopper in the midfield (think of it a a set of dual "living mines") and also an Alpha striker. I've suffered one-too-many Auxbot related disasters in my DZ as a YuJing player and I'm looking forward to be on the other side of those shenanigans now. It also comes with a Repeater, of course. Spoiler: Rest of the units and general thoughts Oblivion is really good now and Danavas has +1B on that with WIP15, plus White Noise. Karhu is a role-player: it hunts heavy armored units or slows them with AP mines (NCO is a really nice bonus, so that no order is left unspent #SustainableList) All in all I think this frame is really good: Hacking is better than ever now and this setup takes advantage of that. I chose not to have a KHD because I don't feel they are that necessary, but you can easily swap someone for a Nokken KHD if needed. Access to both smoke ammo and white noise seems busted with the linked firepower you get. A lot of visors and templates. A lot. And AP ammo to boost, which is really nice since TAGs and HIs are better now. Flexible: this squeleton is strong, but it can change depending on the mission. That Karhu can easily become a Tiger Spitfire or you could swap it (and the Peacemaker) for a couple of Nokken Minelayers if you need to. Kaplan Haris might look like a real thing... But I preffer my specialists infiltrated and if I needed a mimetic mid-range weapon the Tiger or Bulleteer seem better IMO. Between the Varangians and the CSU you can template most of your DZ if going second (and cover access points to your weak link members). And that's it for my theoretical rambling. I'll try to get some TTS games with this and post the batreps in another thread. I honestly think I'm love with this sectorial. Edit: some random formating mistakes.
Nice list joametz. How have the Karhu been ? I have faced it in svalarheim in a harris, where he is brutal. Im consider adding him in White company.
I have played 2 games with this list, which has done Ok. Fusilier core with sniper. Harris with orc, jujak and hacker. The hacker with a firewall has been an ace. Guilangs usually start with repeaters out.
I'm having a game this weekend, I'll let you know then! It seems amazing in Svalarheima, but in White Company it looks like "a tool for a job". Karhu, Peacemaker, CSU and the cheap remotes are the pieces I'll tend to switch around depending on the mission (I think). Sometimes Tiger will be better, or a couple of Nokken, maybe even a Nisse... But I do like it a lot conceptually.
