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White Banner, Hopes & Dreams

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Aren't Zhanshi the core of the Banner armies, if so it would make sense for them to be AVA T.
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Not going to lie, if White Banner doesn't have AVA T for "Zhanshi, Troops of the Banners", it'll get my knickers right twisted. Not that it has any serious gameplay impact, but anything but AVA T is just not right!
     
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  3. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    NCA has had AVA5 Fusiliers since its inception, years before they became AVA Total in VIRD, so there's always a chance...
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Isn't NCA's main force and AVA T the Neoterra Bolts, though?
     
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  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Bolts and Auxilia.
     
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  6. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    @Mahtamori
    The AVA5 on Fusiliers existed before Bolts were created and added to the Sectorial. Bolts are a comparatively recent addition.
     
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  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    For White Banner you'd think there would be a bunch more troops and remotes with Multi-terrain & Climb+. I believe Huang Di is not just cold but mountains as well?

    Sounds like Vanilla other than Zhanshi link. I hope we get a bit more than that.
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Specifically, White Banner is meant to be a new take on the old N1 Yu Jing concept (back then, Yu Jing was still somewhat the Soviet conscript horde type army) with the first sets of units. It's unclear where the cut off for old units go, whether that's before or after Hac Tao...
     
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  9. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I'll be curious to see how the lore steers back towards Svalarheima. There's so much focus on conflict ramping up between the Sphere and the EI, I'm curious if the PanO/Yu Jing tensions on Svalarheima will even feel relevant.
     
  10. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I just played around with making a list with what I think may be in WB with a 5-man Tiger link team with a Haidao wildcard. This is with the assumption that they obviously can’t Combat Jump and are Multi-terrain instead. I can tell right now that it’s going to be hard to do a link team with them with points as they are. Personally, I feel Multi-terrain should be cheaper than Combat Jump. By about 3-4pts.

    I don’t think it would be that bad to have a basic TS with Combi-Lt. FT, Mimetisim, Multi-terrain, Medium Infantry for 24pts.

    Equivalent troops: Medium Infantry BS13, Normal deployment
    Bolts are almost the same but lower WIP and Higher BTS. Comb+Lt. Shotgun with Courage and Veteran L1 for 22pts.
    Wildcats slightly lower WIP, PH, Much higher BTS with Combi-Lt. Ft, D-Charges, Multi-terrain, Courage for 19pts.
    Djanbazan better ARM, lower PH Rifle+Lt. Shotgun, MSV2, Regeneration, Multi-terrain for 27pts.
    Lasiq is BS12 but still close. Viral Rifle, X-Visor, Mimetisim, Climb+, Religious, for 25pts.

    So I’d say 4pts cheaper by taking away Combat Jump is pretty fair.

    That would only be +12pts back from the list below. I don't think that would make anything unbalanced.

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    5-Man Link
    TIGER SOLDIER Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    TIGER SOLDIER Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    TIGER SOLDIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    TIGER SOLDIER Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)

    GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    TIGER SOLDIER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    3.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  11. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Wouldn't the fall off the Wotan blockade naturally shift the narrative to the Svalarheima system?
     
  12. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    Huh? O_oU

    I have no idea where you got that conception from… but having only one less month of presence in this game than PsychoticStorm I can tell you I never saw that.

    When I arrived to the game there was only three factions with starter and a few miniatures: PanOceania, YuJing and Ariadna.
    So...
    PanOceania starter had 4 fusiliers, 1 crocman and 1 Orc MULTI. Additionally they had miniatures for Orc HMG, Hospitalier Knight, Akali HMG and Akali combi, Squalo TAG, Box of basic PanO REMs.
    YuJing starter had 3 Zanshi, 1 Monk, 1 Ninja, 1 Hsien MULTI. Additionally they had miniatures for Invincible soldier MULTI, Invincible soldier HMG, Tiger Soldier HMG and Tiger Soldier combi+lft, Guijia TAG, box of basic YuJing REMs.

    It must be said we had just a small rules booklet with simplified rules and missing a ton of weapons and equipment. But rules were pretty straightforward and fast paced; and featuring the mechanics of Camo and AD combat jump they were enough to hook up the people that tried them. Also until the release of N1 Rulebook we were given a glimpse of new rules and equipment periodically. That way once we were given smoke ammo and MSV rules, YuJing players were the first ones to come up with and exploit the infamous combo.

    As you can see PanO and YuJing were quite similar and actually, until the release of N1 Rulebook, PanO was less competitive than YuJing. But let's face it, we just had uncompleted army lists for a game not released yet as such. Within a year the rest of factions: Haqquislam, Nomads and CA, got their starters and some miniatures. Until the N1 Rulebook with full army lists was released we were given some additional sculpts for basic troops and also just a few new units.

    - PanO got Bagh Mari and Joan (at that time Joan had the same profile as nowadays V1 but costing 80 pts. Originally, inspiring leadership worked by just asigning Joan's regular and frenzy/impetuous state to the whole army. Which was funny, once Joan triggered frenzy and became impetuous then the whole PanO army become impetuous )

    - YuJing got Guilang, Ko Dali and Hac Tao (people talk a lot about the Swiss guard as one iconic unit of the game, but the first TO HI that saw action in the tables was the Hac Tao).

    So yes, it was a depressing panorama for PanO. Until the full lists were released with the book…

    PanO army list in N1: Fusilier, Kamau, Bagh Mari, Nisse, Akalis, Orc, Hospitalier, Joan, Aquila Guard, Swiss Guard, Crocman, Squalo, Jottums, Cutter, Dragoes, Machinist, Trauma Doc, Pathfinder, Sierra, Clipper, Fugazzi.

    YuJing army list in N1: Zanshi, Keisotsu Butai, Tiger Soldier, Ko Dali, Invincible soldier, Hsien, Hac Tao, Sun Tze, WuMing, Dao Fei, Guilang, Ninja, Shaolin, Guijia, doctor Yisheng, mech engineer Gongcheng, Weibing, Husong, Son Bae, Chaiyi

    (btw, Sun Tze without Strategos as rule didn't exist, no mimetism, no flash pulse, no double nanopulser. Only thing he had was his WIP 17 to decide the deployment/starting turn roll and Total Immunity, paying 78 pts)

    As you can see it was a happy moment for PanO players. Keeping in mind MSV3 during N1, N2 was God's eye, HMG was the weapon to rule them all, TAGs had been source of multiple forum debates about if they are too good at attack but also supposed a big hit if destroyed (let's not talk about the aberration that supposed a TAG with TO), CC rules were the most inefficient mechanic in the game and best way to waste orders and that at that time there was no ITS nor any kind of missions others than force your opponent to disband… it's easy to see PanO became the top dog.

    But anyway, my point is that, based on my description, YuJing has never been the "Soviet conscript horde" you have stated. Maybe you got deceived by the fluff that explains the reforms done by the State in the army in order to modernize it into the professional force that ins the Invincible Army. Just keep in mind that fluff has been there since the N1 book was released. Invincible army gets a full paragraph of fluff in N1 and N2 books in order to state IA is the essence of YJ military forces. The old version of the armies of the banner has never been in game part of Infinity, just background.
     
    #52 Janzerker, Feb 22, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
    barakiel, colbrook and Space Ranger like this.
  13. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Janzerker on this. I've been playing almost as long and never felt that way about them. If anything, the conflict on Paradiso was the main focus from the start.

    Huang Di could come into focus with Shasvastii making there way to the planet and as mentioned, further the story by Combined now attacking to cut of the supply of Teseum.
     
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Bostria is source on that one. Can't tell you which video, too long ago, but I think it is close-ish to Red Veil or one of the new Tigers. I'm very certain memory doesn't tell a lie in this case - however, things change and White Banner might no longer be the same.

    Edit: But... since you latch on to the stuff I wasn't expecting and you're on about the less meaningful one about more of the soviet horde comment. Don't take that to extremes, mate. It's inconsequential. But the faction has shifted a lot harder towards HI since then.
     
    #54 Mahtamori, Feb 22, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Spasiba!




    Hac Tao has been in the game since N1, and I think it's dossier has the White Banner sectorial logo on it (for however much that is worth anymore).

    But the comment about the Banner Army style came from the Invincible (the original YJ HI) fluff:
    Emphasis mine.

    So I'm expecting lots of Zanshi, increased AVA Guilang, Tiger soldiers, Shaolin, and maybe a Hsien or two.
     
  16. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    I love the Hac Tao, it's bassically the unit that got me interested in Yu Jing to begin with. I daydream about having the possibility to make a list with a Core-5-man-link + Hac Tao + Daofei + Guilangs + Shaolins (bassically, vanilla YJ with a Core link :shrug:)

    That would be competitive as well I think, wouldn't it?
     
  17. Deltervees

    Deltervees Crash Test Dumbass

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    Going back the the Briscard comparison, I'd be interested to see some Zhanshi+, with AP or shock MMRs, and maybe mimetism, in the 15-low 20s point range. An APMMR+mimetism would cost around 17 pts, maybe with some bloat to prevent spamming.
     
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  18. SKOZZOKONZ

    SKOZZOKONZ Well-Known Member

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    I hope we get some eclipse, since the current dynamic of sval vs white banner is sval has heavy armour and msv (jotum + nisse) and wb has tricks. At this stage I'd expect sval to get more sensors and the like maybe another camo unit while wb get eclipse on maybe one model to help deal with misses and maybe access to jammers. I kinda hope the two forces are in a much tighter ying yang relationship than anything we've seen so far given the nature of their origin.
     
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  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    More Zhanshi variants isn't a bad idea at all, Varuna style. Your APMMR+Mimetism would be 19 points (or 18, depending on if it's true that Mimetism cost is tied to BS value), though, and I think the poor stats of the Zhanshi and the inherent +1-2 cost compared to comparable troops for very little gain is bloat enough :)
     
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  20. Ariwch

    Ariwch The denizen of the StateEmpire salt mine

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    Like FD2 camouflaged Hacker+ (Upgrade:Icebreaker) equipped with a pitcher? :smiling_imp: