I know that there are some of the PanO player base that feels Military Orders is in need of some updates/help in able to perform better in ITS. With that said, it got me thinking. If you wanted to use Knights in a Vanilla list how would you go about it? Which Orders/units would you take and are worth taking in your opinions? I know Joan is good in Vanilla but what about Fersen? Any replies or comments is appreciated.
Hospitallier is good in Vanilla as an alternative to Trauma Doc, and sometimes build lists with him. Santiagoes are good, semi-cheap platforms for playing aggressively at the mid-field.
I play any combo of them and always made wonders with them. But I find they are the best when Joan is around. Because a Aquila and three other knights plus Joan rocks a lot.
Yeah +1 for Hospitaler Doc MR as Combat Specialist. Santiago Spitfire for Hunting Party (E/M Nades + ADHL for 0-24 +3 Rangebands) or Lt for Decap (360 Visor HI in SF has some staying power and can make good use of reduced SWC as well as the Order). Joan V1 Lt for obvious reasons, bonus points for Decapitation. Joan V2 Exp CCW for Rescue or Looting and Sabotaging 6-2 Multiterrain and useable CC to smack things in CC. Partially thanks to the Saturation Zones making BS Attacks less effective. Montesa LGL/LRL, not exactly my cup of tea, but the LGL serves as a Data Tracker that can easily hunt down Designated Targets and obvious Lts. The LRL dropped as a reserve piece can ruin a day or three. Special mention to the Seraph. Ever got a table with every roof occupied by cheerleaders? He is your guy. DeFe is lacking something minor. No Frenzy is good as a solo piece, BS14 Spitfire is enough, AHD is enough, KHD Program upgrade is enough. A tiny little bump like a DA CCW or DTW so he actually can be a true jack of all trades would be great. I don't think MO has a problem on the table or ITS beyond being very onesided in useful options.
KotHS Spitfire can be solid. Hospitaller Combi Doc with PalBot is one of the best CC threats we can put out. Magister DA CCW is a good occasional surprise.
- Joan V1. Inspiring Leadership and her stats are pure gold. - Hospitaller Knights. The doctor Multi Rifle with palbots, he is a good specialist and decent CC, and our best doc () Other interesting profiles are doc combi, HMG and lieutenant. - Santiago Knights. Spitfire, E/M grenades and 360º for 44 points and 1.5 swc. I like it. - Montesa Knights. Mechanized Deployment and grenade launcher with BS14. Going first, he can be the MVP.
MO are very strong when run in a very narrow band of highly restrictive styles. Otherwise, yes, they are very weak.
It's not Joan link. There is nice lists analysis of all factions: http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/50288-interplanetary-lists-some-notes-and-observations/ But the lists are directly listed here: http://assets.infinitythegame.net.s3.amazonaws.com/downloads/interplanetario/Lists 2017/lnterplanetario_lists.zip
Magister Link is the real deal in MO. Full Knight Core is more of a Limited Insertion thing. Joan+4 does fine when they're going first, but it's utter shit in ARO compared to the Magisters for about 50 points more. Not even kidding, nothing in a pure Hospitaler Core can match Dodges on 17, B2 Panzerfausts+LSG or B2 ML with Sixth Sense L2 Magisters can pull off for half their cost. You pretty much have to supplement them with TR Bots/MSR TO OS, which tends to lead to 10 Orders lists. Absolutely not a fan outside of LI Joanstar also has the problem that your unsecured Lt will be running across the table on turn 1. You do get the option to take a second Doc, a DTW, higher BS MR and most important - the BS14 BSG, but honestly that's still just one or two pips over the Magisters in a few selected areas. Once a Magister Link is in the midfield it doesn't just fold like a Hospitaler core does. Abusing the ability to break the Link for up to 4 free impetuous Orders CC, LSG, Panzerfausts or just free Minesweeping, Engaging something in CC or merely to gain ground. It's a massive boost to their utility. Try to picture a game that is already going well. You went first and turn one was a murder spree despite 8 Orders, it's your 2nd turn and just refilled the first Combat group to 10 Orders. Then you break the link, do some more chip damage, reform it and effectively get a 14 Order turn two from a much better position. That is situational, but even one or two surviving Magisters are more than capable to act as a very effective force multiplier for their very manageable 22 points. Unless I am running 6 linkable Knights I tend to avoid the ML because it just doesn't have that crazy versatility and costs a whooping 10 points extra. Took a long, long time to see the mixed Core for what it really is. Originally the whole thing was a BS17 HMG + chaff to me. Now I only see the HMG as the delivery tool for the real heroes of the show. What I wouldn't forget about is a 3-Man Core + Seraph though. A lot of missions love the Seraph to bits for his combination of sturdiness, damage output and mobility. He is the uncrowned king of hunting Lts/Specialists, being Datatracker, holding Zones and hunting Camo in MO. The guy is hard to fit in a list, but worth considering for the 2nd one. Alright, thanks for listening. That's about enough offtopic from me.
Aren't you the first person which showed me that you can actually fit Seraph and full proper Hospitaller+Magister link ?
Yes, 15/16 Orders (with 2 Command Tokens) for turn 1. But that list is very specific. There is no Hacking defense whatsoever and you need a good reason to want this much damage output. It's mainly a Direct Action list that is supposed to win through a massive Alphastrike. The mission also should be one where going 2nd is an advantage and effectively aims to not let your opponent have a game at all. Either by triggering Loss of Lt early or by killing so many Orders, that taking down the Seraph is all you can manage. It's pretty nasty, but you won't use it every game in a tournament. MO V2 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 4 KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 41) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 4 2 SERAPH Spitfire, Nanopulser + AUXBOT_1 / EXP CCW. (2 | 82) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. () FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) 4 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army MO V3 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 4 KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 41) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) SPEC. SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher + AUXBOT_1 / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 19) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) GROUP 2 3 2 SERAPH Spitfire, Nanopulser + AUXBOT_1 / EXP CCW. (2 | 82) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. () TRAUMA-DOC (Father-Doctor) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Seriously, not a single mention of Father-Knight? The guy may be an oversized ORC with a sword, but his stats are very good at forgiving mistakes and even better for a good player. I find the Missile Launcher a very efficient fire magnet and TAG Hunter while more dangerous or key models do their work unmolested (because for some reason no one likes ignoring a big BS14 Missile Launcher guy that isn't hiding under TO Camo). AHD might have had his wings clipped, but is still veritable, especially with BTS9 and good WIP. FO comes with Nimbus Grenades to screw defensive Fireteams.
BTS9 is not really that good in a world of DAM16 hacks with DT/Breaker. (though hilariously my FK AHD last tournament did tank every hacking attemp made on him, either by Interventor, Zoe or KHD Naga. He promtly died twice to either double crit HMG, or triple crit from Naga KHD) Whats a problem of dealing with a single unlinked ML? Throw a smoke once/twice or apply own linked ML/Feubarach/MSR (as most even basic infrantry will shoot on 13s versus FK single ML shoot on 14s or 11s or even worse if suprise shoot/smoke is involved).
