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Where I try to figure out... Shona!

Discussion in 'Legendary Bahadurs' started by Chikahiro, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. Chikahiro

    Chikahiro Well-Known Member

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    Or as I like to call her, the Crossfit Queen :)

    She's not fast, she's not likely to win initiative, plus she has normal energy and health. Seeing that already tells me I need to be thoughtful with her.

    I'm not crazy about her Defense being :-::.: but I figure her Switch really factors into that. I do need to look up when states are applied, technically speaking, as that changes how powerful it is IMO. That said, If it was :*::-: or :*::.: that'd probably be too powerful in the general scheme of things.

    Her :R::-: and :Q::,: are nice.

    Then we get to those horrifying attacks of hers O_O

    Broadsword scares me. As someone who focuses on more control focused teams, but yeah, I'd really have to keep an eye on her. The :L:2-2 range is some comfort because its so oddly specific. However, her Hit The Blade is what keeps that comfort minimal. Sure, maybe a player might score some damage, but its the Switches that make it worrisome. Displace, displace, displace! That's not good news for my Prysm, Taowu, Murtair, etc. Characters that benefit from being adjacent or disengaging. Also makes her harder to control by those means as well.

    Defense At A Distance is Silence-worthy. However, that's what makes Hit the Blade more worrisome; there's redundancy there. They're not exact copies of each other, but I think they're close enough for many common situations.

    Dazzle will be important for dealing with her, I think. Immobilizes will be useful, but that'll require not sticking around so she doesn't have fuel for her switches. Stun will be good for Hit the Blade. Hitting her with penalties to :U: should be done if possible.

    Aaaand her tactics...

    Amputate is obviously fearsome, especially against higher HP targets that I'm used to keeping around longer. I could see No's getting No'd on this card. While its a single use? Yeah, Hannibal's Timeout was made for that. But, again, so is anything affecting LOS like Dazzle or Smoke.

    Likewise, Whirlwind is quite good. A nice single-use attack.

    That said, the next two are the worrisome ones, and I think they'll be overshaded by Aputate mentally speaking...

    Vigour is one that should be quite good if given sufficient setup. The thought of it plus Hit The Blade in a group means a lot of messing up defensive lines in my opinion. Using Broadsword more than once might be great as well, but yeah, just thoroughly messing up all the blocker's positioning is quite a thought! This might make Valkryie a good counterpick as well as Maximus (albeit for different reasons).

    Riposte? Oy... that's a terrifying defense, and could make her good at a chokepoint. I think it'd be good for last-ditch efforts as well. I'd probably wait until the later game to use it though.

    I'm trying to think how I'd want to use her... She seems like she'd be easier to use than Murtair for me. I like the toolset she brings to threaten with, but I think she really needs support. Her own cards don't offer her much buffing or require setup. Her and Laxmee would be good due to her switches. Hexx3r would help with her mobility, plus she and Lunah could help slow down prey. Hannibal is also quite good for her, particularly when you consider what his tactics could do. Him and Wild Bill? Oy.

    Initial thoughts. Will have to ponder further. I'm noticing that I need time to figure characters out. I'm not good at the deeper layers of them yet!
     
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  2. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Being weak to Smoke AND Dazzle worries me as someone considering using her.

    But her ability to control and deal damage is very high.

    Imagine trying to deal with her if she is shoulder to shoulder with Max and backed up by Mendoza.
     
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  3. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    I've used her a couple of times and while she's able to do some good peak damage, she's actually quite easy to lock down and not at all difficult to take out. I'm not sold on her yet, she's a bit of a glass cannon and needs extra dice or support to really hit her stride reliably. Maybe it's because I've had more games in with valk but I find she does that combat take-out reliably as well as having some backup state generation that swings it for me
     
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  4. Chikahiro

    Chikahiro Well-Known Member

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    My impression from browsing through the Legendary Bahadur is that with the exception of Oberon? You've got 3 individuals who aren't necessarily team players. So, taking one means you get some cool stuff BUT you need to think around them when making the rest of your team.
     
  5. treiral

    treiral Midnight poster

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    I don't get that impression, or rather the opposite, I think I need to think around all my choices, not only with the Legendary Bahadurs, to form a good -balanced- team. I see them as very strong choices that perform well both alone and in a team. Well, Shona not so much, she's a bit like Miyamoto in that regard, but both Final Boss and Koorie can tag enemies with :I:Stun and even :S:Dazzle. Both very useful at keeping your team alive while disabling the other. They are all very aggressive though, is that what you mean? The only 'support' is Oberon and even he is nasty with Silenced and his other switches.
     
  6. Chikahiro

    Chikahiro Well-Known Member

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    Well, again, my impressions are superficial at the moment. That said? Her Tactics and abilities seem to be ways to cash-in on other's efforts, not necessarily to make others better. IIRC all her tactics are only good for her to use, not someone else. While I can see the comparison to Musashi, 3/4 of his Tactics cards are usable by other characters. There's a lot of characters who would benefit from :)::)::):, an extra action point, or negating a whole die.

    Her contribution to the team has to be through aggressive play and control, but one can argue a lot of that control is for her benefit with the benefit to others being incidental.

    I fully reserve the right to change my mind as my experience grows. At the moment this is superficial theory-crafting :)
     
  7. treiral

    treiral Midnight poster

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    Oh, definitely, their cards are personal use only, but I've seen that trend getting more and more common the further we step away from the core characters. Maybe it has to do with its powerlevel, they are all very strong cards, so they wanted to limit them for their activation only.
     
  8. Chikahiro

    Chikahiro Well-Known Member

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    I agree that its for balancing. Shona is really interesting because of it. I think having these different ways of handling these things allows for more creative possibilities with future expansions. And, yeah, I do like the idea of keeping balance. I am wondering if at some point there'll be a re-issuing of the core characters with balance tweaks? And I think they were looking at new/alternate standard 10 decks?
     
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  9. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Who needs a tweak out of the core box though? They're all good picks still! The only one I don't use much is 8ball but he got a whole lot better for the new ziggurat games
     
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  10. Chikahiro

    Chikahiro Well-Known Member

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    I’ve heard it said that Wild Bill and Musashi might need a little tweak, but that’s more a dev question. But, I think it’s a good idea to review everything in a year or three just to be sure everything is good :)
     
  11. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    ah right I see. Yeah there's never a game mode where either of them is a bad pick. they're both really strong at what they do. tbh though, they both have pretty common and painful counters.
    Bill is shut down hard by dazzle, especially if engaged at same time.
    Mushashi is shut down hard by anything that supresses movement like immobilised or -2 mov as he's usually got a bit of a walk to get to score or shank something.
    Both have good tactics which can be neutered with tactic-focussed characters too. I'd say they're both pretty solid. they also have rivals now in that there are several ranged characters with varying pro's cons vs bill and mushashi is the same. Valk vs Mushashi is a really tough call in a few game modes
     
  12. Chikahiro

    Chikahiro Well-Known Member

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    Anyhow - usually the thing is if they're a must-have/no brainer there's a problem. The hard part with balancing is everyone loves buffs, nobody likes nerfs, and you don't want power bloat.

    I'm quite looking forward to fielding Shona, as I think she'll be brutal fun. She's interesting, has control other than "you're dead," has "you're dead" as an option, and gives us another good option. Maybe BanzaiZAP won't feel guilty about Musashi and use him more often? Or at least keep his hands off Valkyrie (who is one of my top picks).
     
  13. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Yeah, for me she's going to be competing with Valkyrie and I don't see myself selecting Shona over my very favorite lady of the Viking persuasion often at all.

    Which is a mirror on my feelings re: Dart vs Koorie Queen, where I don't think I'll be running the Posthuman wonder again after our current season with the Carano mod.

    Keeping in mind that as far as I'm concerned, the only Aristos who exist are the ones from PanOceania.
     
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  14. CAnon

    CAnon Well-Known Member

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    A neat trick with Shona (on missions where the scoring zone moves) is dropping from the infirmary into a former-scoring zone where at least two opponents are (one preferably a squishy scorer or support).

    Then you spend your 3 energy broadswording the support, and amputate the harder target.

    In the process, you likely trigger Shona's general switch, giving the play 2 frags and a -energy state removal as pay-off.

    Obviously, if you have Parvati and Advanced Surgery, they don't even need to be in the scoring zone, just within 6 spaces of it. Or you could Hit the Blade.
     
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  15. Chikahiro

    Chikahiro Well-Known Member

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    Well, hopefully Amputate the harder target.

    I do wonder if the mere threat of Amputate will force people to be less likely to use No at good times.

    "Okay, I can 'No' that, or wait for the inevitable 'Amputate.' Because why wouldn't you use Amputate?"
     
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  16. CAnon

    CAnon Well-Known Member

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    Which is why you run her with Oberon, Bill, and Hannibal. Who cares if they No! one of your five Amputates? :^)
     
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  17. treiral

    treiral Midnight poster

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    That's when you pick Taowu.
    You deny it with your extra No, and then take Amputate from the discard pile so he can't cycle through it again. :^)
     
  18. Stompburger

    Stompburger Member

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    Or better yet, don't even take 'Amputate'. Then they might just keep holding on to their 'No' forever :grin:
     
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  19. CAnon

    CAnon Well-Known Member

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    Pssh. What is this, 4D chess?
    Naww, just take the card.
    Next you'll be telling me you run Senor Massacre without Epic Regeneration, or hEXx3r without Untouchable.
     
  20. Roadrunner7431

    Roadrunner7431 Well-Known Member
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    @CAnon I sympathize with your view but I do think that it is interesting that we choose our two of four character specific cards in secret. I never thought that Laxmee's Team Reset was worth taking until Bachmann came along