@HellLois etc So many skills/effects in the game refer to "Troopers" or "enemies" - for example, Martial Arts (and CC Attack itself) requires the target of an "enemy." Obviously scenery structures aren't enemies themselves, but they're treated as such for the purposes of attacking. In Looting & Sabotaging, I see it played that you can use the CC mode of D-Charges on the AC2 (Since the mission grants d-charges out of the panoplies, after all) but those require an "enemy trooper." And yet, it was rules that you cannot use Guided ammo to attack Targeted Antennas in The Grid, with the justification that they are not "troopers" and thus Guided ammo cannot be used against them, despite the fact that Guided ammo itself doesn't have any such requirement. Is there any hidden internal logic to these decisions that I'm not seeing, or is it a matter of people at CB deciding one or the other arbitrarily?
I'm pretty sure the logic on The Grid was that you can't use guided ammo because the antennas cannot enter the Targeted state, not that a Targeted antenna is somehow immune to guided ammo. That's potentially still a debatable point, but it at least makes things less wildly inconsistent than your first post describes them. I.e. all damaging attacks are being treated in a consistent manner.
Consider that the Jumper N1 rules are a mess (it gives the posthuman Remote Presence, but in practice it gives only Valor 1, because no proxy has STRucture...) and then in this ITS a "patch" has been applied by which Datatracker is not the Posthuman but the body (gameplay balance Vs logic/fluff) and in Hunting Party only one body gets the Lt nomination (so it goes against the Jumper rules). So I'd say that the logic is "let's try and not make it too easy for some factions", or at least I hope it's that. Despite being obvious last-minute patches to situations they failed to prevent, pointing to a worrying lack of consideration of the rules from those who should know those better than anybody -.-U
Less than helpful. The only thing I can find is exactly as @toadchild described, and doesn't directly mention Guided at all.
That isn't quite the same as Guided needs to used on troopers. End result is the same, but the step of "non troopers can't enter the targeted state" is an important distinction.
http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/51088-the-grid-and-forward-observer/#comment-972898 Basically the same conversation. And, again, it is about Targeted simply not doing anything to a non-Trooper, as opposed to Guided specifically being non-functional.
Yes, but following that same logic Martial Arts and so on wouldn't be able to be used on non-Troopers. Moreover, the Guided trait itself only requires a "target" and not a trooper. Guided. In Active Turn, this weapon can make a BS Attack against a target in the Targeted state, ignoring LoF and making a BS+6 Roll (This includes the Targeted MOD. Apply no other MODs for Range, Cover, CH: Camouflage, etc.).
Troopers in the Targeted state can be chosen as targets of Attacks using BS Weapons with the Guided Trait, applying the full advantages of this Trait. Emphasis mine. We know that AC2s are targetable by CC because the scenario specific rules explicitly say they are CC'able, and something like, say, Berserk modifies that CC attack that was explicitly allowed. If the Targeted state is non-functional on scenery because it's not a trooper, then the bullet point of Targeted which allows you to use Guided is non-functional. Guided itself simply refers back to Targeted, so you need to read the rules of Targeted state.
Guided does not refer back to targeted, it's a rule in and of itself. The same logic would prevent Martial Arts being used if that were true.
As is often the case, I agree that things could be more clearly spelled out. I don't think this is quite as muddled as you're making it out to be, though.
@macfergusson To elaborate, we know that the AC2 in Looting & Sabotaging is targetable, but nothing says that Martial Arts etc. (or even D-charges) work, explicitly. It's all by implication. And if the implication is that it's treated as a trooper for the purposes of Martial Arts etc, then why not something like Targeted? (Obviously Looting & Sabotaging is a bad example, as it's CC attacks only, but the same logic applies to The Grid).
Because we've been explicitly told otherwise, for specific scenarios. In other words, for balance purposes on that particular mission. (e.g. http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/...questions-1-unanswered/?page=8#comment-969500) Is this an accurate and appropriate balance? /shrugs You're making statements about specific exceptions in specific scenarios as if they are game-breaking overall issues. Of course a scenario with special rules that does something different from normal is going to function, well... differently.
@macfergusson You're using circular reasoning there. Moreover, nowhere is it stated this is for balance reasons, but more that it's just how the rules are.
When they're not expressed as being particular to the scenario, but rather how the ruleset as a whole is applied to the scenario, it becomes circular logic to say "It is internally consistent because it must work that way because CB employee xyz said so" and then when you try to apply that logic somewhere else it fails.
