1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

What's good in Svalarheima?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Zsolt, Mar 27, 2020.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    3,302
    Likes Received:
    2,526
    SWF
    Technically 8 core options and 7 Haris. SWF have Cheap, Mid-price, and expensive options for both Core and Haris. All of them with better BS and some cheaper (Fusilier).

    Core: Fusilier, NIsses, Vargar, Orc
    Special Core: Fusilier+Orc, Fusilier+Infirmarer, Nisses+Machinist, Vargar+Orc
    Haris: Nisses, Vargar, Knight Hospitaler, Orc
    Special Haris: Vargar+Orc, Nisses+Machinist, Hospitaler+Infirmarer
    Wildcard: Gunnar, Quinn, KoJ (up to 1), Sorensen

    WB
    WB has a really expensive and really cheap options. Most of the Wildcards are really expensive and limited to one and kinda meh.

    Core: Shang Ji, Zhanshi
    Haris: Shang Ji, Ye Mao
    Duo: Jing Qo + Shaolin, Shang Ji, Jujak, Blue Wolf

    Any number of Jujak may join a core team of Shang Ji

    Wildcards:
    Tian Gou (up to 1)
    Shang Ji (up to 1)
    Lei Gong
    Chiang Gao
    Adhil Mehmut

    Edit: Forgot to add that Zhanshi are AVA4 so if we want a full core, we MUST take a Wildcard, like it or not. Fusiliers don't have that problem. Fusiliers are total. So if you have extra you can pull them into the link as they die.

    I can already hear the but, but, Tian Gou Jammers!! First off you are not likely to put a TG in a defensive link where he's unlikely to even use his Jammer unless enemy get lose to them. Happens but not that much to make it worth it. Second, other than jammers, he's not that much better than a Zhanshi.
     
    #281 Space Ranger, Jul 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  2. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2018
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    913
    I asked which one in particular you think is better or at least worth envy. Like I said, quantity doesnt output as quality.
     
    Tourniquet likes this.
  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    3,302
    Likes Received:
    2,526
    Sorry, I thought it was obviously, all of them. Because of the number of them, SWF is more flexible to make a good team depending on the mission and play style. I in particular like the Vargar. They have a good flexibility to them. I've heard some say Albedo is useless but I disagree, who doesn't take MSV of some sort right now? Even if it is, they are not paying a lot of pts for it. They are still a good, ARM3, Super Jump troop with BS13. They then have the added flexibility to take up to 2 ORC for either more attack or defense. Their mirror in WB is the Ye Mao, which are more expensive, BS12, ARM2, and can only do a Haris team. Oh and BTW, they would not able to see those Vargar because of their MSV1.

    I would be happy to have this team. WB can not do a team like this. It can be either a relatively cheaper and weaker Zhanshi team, or a very expensive Shang Ji team (even with mostly Jujak).

    [​IMG]5
    VARG (Forward Observer) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25)
    VARG (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    VARG (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower, WildParrot / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    VARG (Minelayer) K1 Marksman Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30)
    KNIGHT OF JUSTICE Spitfire / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 51)

    3.5 SWC | 158 Points

    Edit: sorry i originally had an ORC instead of KoJ. But it's up to 2 Vagar with ORC team.

    For a Haris, again, more options. The best at range battle of course the Nisse. Again the WB option is the Ye Mao, who can take more expensive troops or close to the same price. Or the much more expensive Shang Ji Haris. The Vargar are again also a good Haris option.

    [​IMG]3
    NISSE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    NISSE Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    MAQUINISTA (WinterFor) (CH: Mimetism, Multiterrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)

    1.5 SWC | 82 Points

    If I suddenly won the lottery. I'd play something like this. The flexibility is incredible. It can do many different teams depending on mission and enemy,

    The fusilier core can do 5-man Fusi. If any one of those Fusi goes down, then it can be reformed with ORC, Infirmarer, or Quinn.
    Or start with Fusi+Infirmarer or ORC, and/or Quinn, with an extra Fusi waiting in case someone goes down.

    The Haris can be Vargar+Quin or ORC.

    Also, the Vargar+Quinn Haris, can be switched out with a Nisse HMG+Machinist and joined by Quinn. Then extra points for warcor.

    Also, if i feel I need more specialists, the ORC can be switched with a KoJ FO. Who can be with any of the fireteams. Then chane the one Varg into another FO HRL. Keeping the specialist and not sacrificing firepwoer.

    Svalarheima’s Winter Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    FUSILIER Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)
    ORC HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 44)
    INFIRMARER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    QUINN Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    VARG (Forward Observer) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25)
    VARG (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 26)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    NØKK Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 30)
    PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #283 Space Ranger, Jul 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
    Urobros likes this.
  4. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    738
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    You have an interesting perspective, but I simply disagree. The Vargar suffer from the age old PanO problem of being overloaded 1W MI that simply aren't that tough (I've played enough USARF to know that ARM 3 isn't anything to write home about). And their "flexible" fireteam options all suffer from essentially loading down highly manoeuvrable troops with an anchor that limits their mobility. The 5-man you initially list exemplifies this as the KoJ can't easily go where the rest of the team goes. The K1 profile is the only one I rate as worth a damn simply because the combo of area denial and K1 is, frankly, great.

    As for your 80+ point MI haris, ouch. That's past the tipping point of too expensive for 1W models (anything above 75 points needs to be bringing a 2W point man IMO). The Nisse are the biggest losers in SWF, basically getting muscled out of their own sectorial.

    No it can't, the ORC can't join the Vargar haris, the Vargar have to join an ORC haris.

    I'd like to love the Infirmarer, I've made space in NCA for Bipandra (and only regretted it about half the time), but he's even more expensive (and insultingly only linkable with a Hospitaler doctor!) without any real bonus above what her bloated profile already sits on the shelf not being used for (she's 21 points worth of gear and stats for 23, the Infirmarer BSG is ~23 points for 25).

    I can see you've aimed for redundancy and resilience with your list, but it just looks janky to me. The ORC really should be a KoJ so you have more options for linkability (suck up the range reduction). I'm guessing you meant to bring a machinist rather than doubling up on doctors but the Infirmarer is not worth wasting a command token on reforming a link for. I'm guessing you intend the Peacemaker to extend the KHD coverage, but without a HD or AHD you're not threatening HI or TAGs, and you can't buff the Bulleteer. Your Anti-camo game I actually quite like, Quinn coupled with a HFT in a haris, and the midfield Auxbot will make Ariadna or Shas sweat. I'd actually be tempted to drop the Nokken for a Fusilier hacker and a Pathfinder (but then, I don't like the Nokken either).

    Out of all of SWF, the Karhu engineer is good enough on his own to make it into use in vanilla. The Vargar K1 is great. The KoJ is what the Father Knights should have been. The Boyg Mk.12 is a beast (and for sanity's sake I'll just pretend that the ML doesn't exist). I'm disappointed that Nisse (at 300 points at least) have been upstaged, Nokken and Locust are sub-par glass cannons (like warbands but cost 2-3x as much without the extra order, hard pass), the link options in the army (outside of Fusi core) are the absolute worst kind of choices (expensive, mobility-limited or just plain bad), and yet again we have another PanO sectorial that completely fails to add auxbot options (the single most flavourful thing about PanO).
     
  5. Guardian

    Guardian Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    495
    Too bad thats the loadout you will need to put on the table miniature-wise! :D
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,869
    Likes Received:
    3,992
    Wut? He links with Fusilier cores, which means he can effectively link to be a Doctor for ORCs and KoJ.
     
  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    3,302
    Likes Received:
    2,526
    Yes it is a matter of perspective. The one other choice of Haris for WB is even more expensive. I'd love a heavy weapon that's also a specialist.

    YĚ MĀO (Forward Observer) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    YĚ MĀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    TIAN GǑU (1st Section) Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)

    0 SWC | 79 Points

    I'd love something like this too.

    NISSE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    QUINN Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)

    1.5 SWC | 72 Points

    I believe the Varg still count for having the Haris skill. Up to two Varg can join a Core or Haris of ORC. You only need one ORC. Even if they can't, I still like the Varg+ORC over a Ye Mao+Shang Ji. For one thing, it can only have one Shan Ji, second the Shang Ji are really not as good. I'd be happy to have a BS14 (most used stat in the game) vs. CC18 (least used stat in the game).

    In WB, if you loose even one from the core, there's no reforming. There's nothing to reform it with except another wildcard, which are usually not close or too expensive to take in the first place. I've learned from playing Dahshat, it's great to have some extras that can just be added into a link to bring up to again.
     
    #287 Space Ranger, Jul 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  8. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,133
    Likes Received:
    12,925
  9. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    3,302
    Likes Received:
    2,526
    Even so, a ORC haris + 2 varg is not bad. Shang ji is possibly better due to tac awareness and tinbot B.
     
  10. Pinky

    Pinky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    157
    Maybe it's different in YJ, but flexibility is not something you generally want in PanO, as it comes with a high cost. Lots of gear on a MI without mods sounds neat, but in practice the best units are usually highly specialised and without bloat. Your get out of DZ HMG needs as high a BS as possible for as little points as possible, he doesn't need melee or marginally useful gear, and it's much the same with any other function.
     
  11. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    738
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    Now, the option to have the Locust start in supp fire, in cover, half-way up the table is interesting.
     
  12. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,122
    Likes Received:
    4,307
    For one of your 4 command Tokens without getting that as a Coordinated Order? In front of the enemy DZ where all tools are available? Gotta say, that particular pairing doesn't excite all that much.
    Still holding out hope for Hidden Deployment + Mimetism(-6)

    The option to start in SF is far from bad, I do like starting in SF for heavy hitters like TAGs. Just really think it should be 4 units, the same as a Coordinated Order to make basic Rifle Infantry somewhat better corner guards compared to DTWs, Mines, Shotguns and Links.

    Shooting at -6 through Smoke with MSV1s is not a surprise, but heck yes anyway. Slight nerf to Smoke, slight buff to MSV1s. Wonder how Zero-V Smoke will fare.
     
    eciu and AdmiralJCJF like this.