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What's good in Svalarheima?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Zsolt, Mar 27, 2020.

  1. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Plus the Karhu in Duos, and then the ability to add Vargar to an ORC Fireteam? Lot's of (unsubtle) fun to be had!
     
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  2. Guardian

    Guardian Well-Known Member
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    Armor is better in N4 but not THAT much better...
     
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  3. Jotunn

    Jotunn Well-Known Member

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    Am I the only one that think IT is a bit stupid that the Varger and ORCs, who can link, do not share the same movement skill?
     
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  4. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    No.

    But I think it's CRAZY that, based on what we've seen, Climbing Plus still works fine with Move, but Super-Jump still doesn't. They're BOTH Short Movement Skills and it's wildly un-intuitive that one works and one doesn't.
     
  5. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Those are the kinds of details that will hopefully be ironed out. I think the mixed 5-man super links are a trap as far as playability is concerned, doubly so when they all have different MOV values and/or conflicting movement rules.
     
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  6. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Here's hoping Link rules in general will get looked at in depth.
     
  7. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I know it's a longshot but i think it would be interesting if linkteams were shifted from larger sizes and fewer in frequency to smaller in size but you were allowed to take something like 2 harris teams and 2 duos, etc
     
  8. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
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    where would that put Tohaa? and you already can have multiple duos, it's just that duo options seems not that interesting to warrant running more than one (if any at all)
     
  9. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    the dumpster

    imo not enough things have it or can have a mixed duo to make it interesting. JSA is a good example where i find myself running a duo pretty consistently.
     
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  10. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
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    I wish Karhu duo was a little more open. I dont mind it right now with some choices, but I would like a few other options available.
     
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  11. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Link Teams, as of the current rules, have long needed to go into the dumpster. Tohaa were a wonderful example of how things should work for everyone.
     
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  12. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    I mean, Haris used to be exclusive to Haqq too. So it's not a big problem to have things open up.

    I'm still salty about Plasma in Aleph.
     
  13. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    sort of, i think their triad was too open. anything linking with anything is terrible design becuase in the end theres only going to be one or two comboes worth doing that you'll see spammed again and again. as far as internal balance goes for tohaa it was absolutely terrible.
     
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  14. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Hard disagree. Tohaa arbout the best example for internal balance done right.

    They're definitely not perfect either. However their amount of bad troop choices is about the lowest any Sectorial let alone Vanilla Faction has.
    Triads and Links in general will always have at least one Striker. For Tovaa that's Sukeul, Gao Rael and Draal. Sometimes Sakiel (to fill the last Triad for cheap) or Neema. The one option you basically never see are Ectros. Specialists and other tag alongs (Makauls, Kael Tar, Tagma,...) are gonna be mission dependant as usual.
     
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  15. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    i think it's also important to remember they also have a lot fewer units than every vanila (especially pre-spiral days). imo whenever i or another local list builds with them it always end up being the same 75% of units then some mission dependent stuff sprinkled on top.

    Obviously my first sentence has a lot to do with my second but i still think my original point factors into it. there's a handful of gunfighters in the army that are never going to get touched because of the flexibility of the triad.
     
  16. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Hence the comparison to Sectorials first and Vanilla as an after thought.
    They're still much more internally coherent than basically every other Sectorial.
     
  17. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Why it will be better? What I'am missing? Only for the change in the "crit mechanic"? If this is the only reason I'am not so sure about that afirmation

    I'am really agree with what you said. Tohaa had a good internal balance, bring to the game some unique ways to play, so good for them. I think the only problem had tohaa was the Symbionts, because they broked the "internal rules", no "auto" and no "rolls", but this was fixed (a little to late). I think if tohaa go in some point "not popular" it was because they don't had new miniatures for almost two years.

    I think this happens with most of the armys, they are always some profiles "most of people" include in the lists.

    So, going back to the topic, I hope the changes in "fireteams rules" in N4 allow winterforce show the "true power" this sectorial should have and pretty much nobody have succeded to see it in N3 times :P, but of course not, please, a "tohaa copy" in order to do that. Let the mixed small fireteams to the "aliens".

    Still, with N3 rules are some decents options in WF, depedns on the rival we confront.
    ...
     
  18. SpectralOwl

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    Judging by Code One, it's also slightly cheaper, which is a big deal, and the combination of the crit mechanics and the overhaul of States are going to make it much harder to avoid going through a trooper's save stats. If TAGs have unchanged ARM it's also going to drive some changes in listbuilding- a HMG may tear through ARM 3 medium infantry like tissue paper but will barely tickle a TAG in cover, forcing people to bring actual AP weapons and reducing the saturation of high-burst weaponry that so often renders moderate armour useless. Generic deity help anyone relying on a linked Red Fury to break a TAG list in N4.

    As for the link issue, hard pass on the Tohaa cloning. Mixed links are fun in moderation but nearly every recent Sectorial has had a clear and obvious powerhouse option that renders all other options to "situational at best". PanO "Fusiliers+Gunner" cheerleading teams exemplify this; a Kamau, ORC or KoJ backed with 4 Fusiliers shoots more effectively than anything else in the game for a lower cost than a vanilla TAG like a Guijia, despite having often just as much survivability, 5 times the order supply and more utility. Compare to an ORC Core, which costs more than 200 points for identical performance at range and a trade-off at best up close, or Svalarheima's iconic Nisse which pays more than three times as much as a Kamau for identical performance even with Wildcards liberally applied for discount. The game would be better off without the nearly mono-build Cores. Tohaa can have their gimmick; they can get away with it thanks to their anaemic roster and reduced link bonuses. I'd prefer more carefully curated options like those in ISS, Bakunin or JSA.
     
  19. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    @SpectralOwl thanks for the explanation :) And I'am really agree with the comparaison between the poor nisse and the (beast) Kamau.
     
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  20. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I've also maintained the idea that poor internal balance in Tohaa is what stunted them from growing aswell, how do you introduce new gunfrighters, specialists, utility pieces to that army without either invalidating the old ones or making the new ones a sub-optimal choice on release. Even look at the addition of spiral stuff, so many profiles we're left out and locked to the sectorial because if they were given triad they would have just invalidated a pre-existing unit, and the stuff that did make it in is either a "you're probably going to take this everytime" or "trash".
     
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