Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Zsolt, Mar 27, 2020.
When the Infirmare gained the ability to join fusileer fireteams?
I think it was available from the start, as I was toying right away with KoJ ML + Fusis + Infirmare, to mimic my MO core setup
Since the reveal?
Yes, I think. From the very beginning. For the moment is like a "bipandra" but slower. When we will be in N4, maybe he could find a spot.
This may sound crazy but, I like the Svalarheima WinterFor Sectorial mostly because of what it is and what it allows us to field from an in-game setting/theme perspective!
I've been waiting a long time for the Jotum's Sectorial to finally arrive - I'm glad it's here, the miniatures look great and I'm sure it will do well in N4 too...
No, no, of course not. I will say more than crazy... I'am jocking. :P Of course it will people, as you do, who like Winterforce as it is now. I find my self with a few things I really like it, and others they don't. Winterforce has, in my opinion, some problems:
1. The box companion.
3. Not what a lot of Pano players were expecting.
Yet, Winterforce it will playable (when the CovCrisis allow us to play :( ) in N3, but with a really direct play style. Maybe this the meaning of Winterforce and what we, the disapointed players, should have to expected because it isn't nothing more "direct play style" than a Jotum XD.
And as you did, I really wanted to have acceso to Winterforce. I always like the idea of Nisses in a fireteam and a Jotum side by side :D but here I have a really solid "complain", why the Lt Nisse cost 1 SWC?? Why "Corvus"? :P
So, please, could you explain a little more why do you like Winterforce? Let us to see with your eyes :)
I was going to ask you what PanO players thought was going to be in the Winter Force Sectorial, but then I go to the end of your post and saw that you're asking me what I like! :)
First and foremost, I'm a 'for fun' Infinity player - and still very much a rookie with the game.
I love the look of the new miniatures - they all look great.
I love linked Nisse teams, and the ability to field a Jotum in a Sectorial.
The Knights are also a lot of fun to paint and run, even though, apparently, they aren't the strongest in game options?
The new 'winter' Fusilers look really nice too. The new Boyg's look good too, but I'm reading a lot of complaints in regards to them too?
I guess I'm not overly concerned with running the best points optimized beatstick of a force - so maybe that's my...problem with not having a problem so far?
Plus, with the way the world is right now, I don't see getting a game in until N4 drops anyway, and who knows what things will look like for Winter Force in N4?
Having said all that - in general, what were many people thinking should have been in it?
Being a for fun player or a competitive player is irrelevant.
SWF has the tools for both.
I agree - but apparently many do not?
I was just wondering what the major issues (as perceived) with Winter Force are, and what are the suggestions to improve it - especially as CB might be listening (reading?) and can adjust it for N4, if necessary.
It's the faction of guns guns guns! Not a lot of surprises to give your opponent once the game starts. Specialists tend towards wip12. Expensive and vulnerable hackers. Several of the new units are fairly plain, weirdly designed or just a complete rehash of a previous unit.
As @daboarder said I think too be a "fun or competivie player" has nothing to do, maybe yes the time you are in the game. I were waiting for Winterforce a lot (the incomming first of Varuna was something it feels like a "corvus treason" :P I spoke a little exaggerated here, eh? :P) I'am a relatively "competitive player" but I play for and only for fun. Still, sometimes I want to get my dices and throw it them for a window, but.... who not?
To me the first day we could laid eyes on Winterforce or Whitebanner was a "bad one". I really disliked Winterforce in a "bad way", but I said almost anything (only to a couple of friends). Later, thinking about options in Winterforce I could find some lists which I will be confortable playing, but truly, until we can play with it, we are spoken only "theory". Maybe I will find that "winterforce" suits me a lot or does nothing.
What I waited to find in winterforce... I think maybe more hidden deployment (CO or TO) and "infiltrators" options. I almost have this, but in the "way" of expensive troups with DDO (nokken and locust) and at least a full fireteam core of nisses, not only ava 4 and the need of a Wildcard there. This reminds me a lot the old baghmari core of Acontecimento, where you need Rao in order to do a five member fireteam. I saw a few things they remember me to much early N3 or late N2 design. I could think that is a thing of the future N4 if Whitebanner looks similar in design, but it really don't do it.
The Nokken for example I really like it, but I find the Locust a little redundant here (I understand this is a sales things, if Neoterra goes out, so, they need to sell the fancy Locust miniature), and to me, is an expensive infiltrator which loses a lot of power when go second or against armies with a strong medium table presence with crazy koalas, mines or madtraps... They can't avoid this weapons except if you are playing the killer hacker device and you try to do cibermask or you can do a lot of movement to avoid all this weapons. Yes, maybe this could sound "to competitive", but for fun you need at least a chance to play with him, and probably you can't do it neither.
Of course Winterforce has a lot of cool profiles, nobodys can deny that and I really think it could be a bad ass agains some armies or "lists", with the amout of mimetism or ddo they have if the enemy don't have a lot of visors and a lot of miniatures to compensate this, probably he or she will have a really bad day triying to do some damage.
Nokken, Nisses, Karhus, Vargars, are great profiles, even the "new father knight", but others like Gunnar, a profile too much good in all, good CD,CC,Force,Vol,Bli,PB... a lot of skills and weapons... A lot of things which make him relatively expensive. The Boyg, another profile, specially the ML, a little "meh". Still, the Mk12 I think has his place, but not in 300 points armies but in 200 points or 400. We could do here use of that non SWC cost.
Speaking theoretically , I believe the true power of winterforce will reside in the AVA of some units and the abuse we could do of them. A lonely Locust will have a short live for sure, but if we put a second one and some nokken with mines, the things change. And we have too Peacemakers. So, maybe this is the idea behind Winterforce. Not as much play with a lot and powerfull fireteams but really excepcional guys.
We will see what "tables" or N4 bring to us, shortly :)
A few things would massively impact the quality of SWF.
Karhu Harris. They look like they are made for one, the 2 Feuerbach option with it becomes a serious choice for your long range active turn killer. I don't think it would be too strong. It's exchanging BS for more damage. If a Bagh Mari linked HMG is balanced so is this. This way it's too swingy and the Karhu, while moving in the right direction design wise, lack a proper role when compared to other units.
Hidden deployment on the Nokken. They are an okay unit, and I like a lot of things about them, but having no marker state is rather problematic for them.
Boyg needs to be heavily reworked. Full Auto 2 and an XVisor for 1 SWC on the MK12? Getting am HMG and Total Immunity? AD? Something to make it something that's not just a really bad Knight of Justice. 4-4 move on the Vargar. Having a mid range unit with 4-2 is not that appealing as you need to move out. So, nothing major. Sval has a lot of good ideas, but is lacking in polish and power.
Yes, "not a lot of surprises", really none. Other thing most of players are disappointing with. The lack of any kind of "camo" or "AD". If the rival has no visors, then you wins most of the gunfires, if has visors... Not so sure :P Too much what you see is what you see. I can be sure, but is the unique faction with no "surprise". Oh, well, we have "Uma". :P One "camo" (in our deployment area) :P
What's the point of Agnes? I don't get why one should pay 6 points more rather than a Fusilier.
Agnes has no point. She's just bad. Really bad. If you release a LE model or a character from a comic this is the way to let people play her, but without impacting the balance or 99% of the lists in any way I guess.
The only reason to pick Agnes is if you really really want a DZ defence pieces on the cheap, and a Wip13 specialist. Though her point cost still baffles me when compared to a CSU.
As a link option she is useless. If she had the option to link with Nisse/Varger or ORC she would have a point.
Well, not quite useless.
The Fusilier Core in Svalarheima doesn't exactly pack a lot of DTW options.
But generally speaking I tend to agree that her best use is helping hold down the flank your Core ISN'T on (thanks to 6th Sense).
And, yes, her costing is baffling.
Or, more to the point, the utterly bonkers undercosting of CSUs is once again highlighted by her costing.
Maybe Agne's profile has, finally, the real cost of the smg, not anymore a weapon cheaper than a Boarding.shotgun, but a little more expensive, as most of player think it should (Boarding.Shotgun compared), and this is why we don't find to much sense on this profile. Or maybe is a N4 cost but in N3, and Corvus don't notice of simplement let it be aware of it. Who knows? At least until N4 come.
@Urobros i was referring to alpharius
DTW? Direct Template Weapon... were we expecting Fusiliers to have (m)any?