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What's good in Svalarheima?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Zsolt, Mar 27, 2020.

  1. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    Clearly not:
    • Knight of Justice
    • The horrible useless point bloats that all recent Pano characters are
    • the Infirmaries
    • Karhu paying at least (+ the price of a E/Marat) 11 points over a Feuerbach for that +1 Burst
    • Boyg
    • Fireteam options
    Which are all hot garbage.

    Bring on the forum salt, leave the CB fanboyism at home.
     
  2. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    You forgot Lazarus doc joining a hospi knight Haris... that requires a hospi doctor for the haris model.

    Doctor + doctor haris will surely rival linked holo1 jammers!
     
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  3. Crusader

    Crusader Well-Known Member

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    Nisse HMG (duh), Vargar minelayer & sensor, AVA3 Fugazi, ORC/KOJ+4 Fusi Link.
     
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  4. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    @Zsolt:
    • KoJ are actually a bit better than the original Father-Knights, especially given their Wildcard (1) in SWF. The only thing I don't like is their lack of shotgun option, why CB removes those from units poised for CQB is beyond me.
    • I won't argue about characters. The only exception is Quinn, who is ok - but booooooooring.
    • Infirmaries might have some niche use in Fusilier link or when paired with KoJ, but yeah, right now they're weird at best, and mostly without a role.
    • Karhu pricing is in line with what we've seen elsewhere. And they're a good unit, if very surprising one. They feel like PanO Kurgats, to be honest, and that's not a bad spot to be.
    • Boyg is actually ok. It feels a bit overpriced when compared to Gamma, but Gamma isn't available in PanO so who cares. It competes with KoJ for the role, but has some clear advantages there. Me likes.
    • Fireteam options: dafuq? We have very nice choices here. Much increased flexibility when it comes to Haris teams is probably an indication what to expect in N4.
    Things I personally like:
    • Karhu, while surprising (and another example of PanO "visor+mimetism" design philosophy) are good, and bring some very useful tools to the table. 2x Feuerbach, while being a major wtf - especially on LI - is pretty much a Haris-level firepower on a single trooper, at least in active turn.
    • Nokken are too similar to Locusts for my taste (at least until N4), but they're also good. I see use for each of their loadouts.
    • Vargar are an awesome package, hands down. I'm not sure how MSV/Albedo/ARO interaction will look in N4, but for now they can be used to safely remove MSV ARO troopers so that our ODD units could act without interference. They'll be an awesome addition to fireteams in any kind of urban terrain, sweeping multiple levels for very few orders. K1MR, HFT, shotgun backup on HRL, these guys are good. Remind me a bit of Rodoks, which are a great unit.
    In general I have mixed feelings. Some things are cool, some are boring, some are clearly a stop gap before N4 arrives (I'm pretty sure there are some surprises waiting for use there), CB again shows that they can't design PanO characters. On a whole SWF feels like Morats, but PanO. It's not a bad thing right now, tbh.
     
  5. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    What a terrible thing to say about a sectorial
     
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  6. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    It was a bad thing before, but current MAF is pretty ok. My take on SWF is that it's a MAXIMUM FIREPOWER sectorial, there's less tricks than our other armies can pull, but multiple ways to apply overwhelming force. And, as I've mentioned before, we can be sure that N4 changes - both rules- and sectorial-wise - will shake things up a bit.

    My main complain is that whoever designs PanO characters can't do it for s*** ;)
     
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  7. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Max firepower? I think we have different understandings of that term. For me it's "most likely to win any F2F roll it is required to make" or "fewest scenarios in which it has unfavorable odds to win a shootout" and that lands on VIRD linked Kamau and TAK linked vet kazaks.

    Having big guns and good stats doesn't matter diddly when link bonuses, skills, and equipment get more oomph for the same points.
     
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  8. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    • ORC/Fusilier mixed fireteams allow for multiple efficient combinations, both in attack and defense.
    • Karhu are faster (for now), more aggressive and better equipped Bagh-Mari, and should work very well both solo and in Duo with other units.
    • Nokken can combo their visual modifier, different weapon choices, and advanced deployment to control terms of engagement fairly well. Same goes for Locusts.
    • Vargar, especially in a link or coordinated with other troopers, are a great unit against MSV and decent against anything else.
    • Nisse won't become an autoinclude that is Kamau sniper, but they still are a solid choice against anything with modifiers, both as a solo piece or in a Haris.
    • Boyg competes with KoJ hard, but I can already see use for both loadouts as a breakthrough unit, and KoJ follows closely behind.
    • Jotum was a brick to the face before, and probably will be even more so in N4.
    • Additionally the amount of C+ (and Super Jump on Vargars) will allow SWF to maneuver to exploit some firing positions unavailable easily to others, and denying opposing army safe havens on upper levels of any terrain.
    You are right that Kamau or VetKazaks are awesome when linked, but this doesn't mean that other units don't have their own strengths without the need to follow the same formula. Also, both TAK and to lesser extent VIRD are glass cannons, while SWF has some serious staying power.
     
  9. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    @Stiopa: can you give me examples of good fireteams?
     
  10. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Well KoJ is now a good CC fighter. Having both the DA and Shock CCW is good, and his CC was considerably upped (not to mention he got stealth).

    KoJ ML is a sturdy platform in Fusiliers link (~91 pts for BS17 SS2 ML with Courage). Wildcard on KoJ is actually good, and you might use it with quite a lot of different links.

    Locust SMG+Wildparrot is really funny profile for cheap points.

    SWF ORCs are nice with their C+ to get nice angle of attack, thats why CB gave no SWF option for Feubarach or HMG ^^


    o0 If something like 10 pts is "a bit" for you.......
    How Boyg is even comparable to KoJ ? Yea, I know that always having B2 ML is nice.... but solo ML guys are not exactly that usefull (Swiss being mostly good because of TO surprise AND having LSG for turn 2/3). Also Feubarach is usually a better weapon than ML (if you dont have TO ;P), and Gamma already took it. Also KoJ puts a heavier weapon/armor into smaller frame ;P

    Mk12 Boyg is interesting only because he pays 0 SWC for his Spitfire/HMG hybrid, but he pays a lot of points for that privilage.

    Well KoJ wildcard is rad, but Karhu are missing linkability, and Nisses are great losers of SWF when it comes to link (as their link is really unappealing and it will be actually hard to link anything but a Nisse HMG). So Nisse seems to be reduced to Nisse HMG with N3 SWF.

    If FD2 HD/KHD without camo is good..... (again N3)
     
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  11. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    So SWF is even more limited NCA without crazy optimized solo unit like Swiss/CSU/Auxilia(a bit of a stretch here when it comes to "optimized") ? (I'm also almost positive to call Aquila optimized in current state of things)

    Yea, it has a second "pseduo" skirmisher, but it's an almost carbon copy of Locust (again, Acalis-Crusader problem).

    Kahur might be nice for the Vanilla, but are they that great as solo pieces in sectorial which could use a Swiss ?
     
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  12. Freki

    Freki Well-Known Member

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    Lack of AD / Camo
    Poor FT min/max
    No cheap link fillers, Quinn is the cheapest wildcard
    Midfield presence is sub-par to the say the least
    ARO feels pricey
    Everything is expensive and yet you have to cross the battlefield with almost everything you feel like bringing. So your poor order pool is taxed with extra move requirements.
    I am definitely not impressed
     
  13. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    I happen to agree entirely.

    Few good links, infiltrators with no markers states and no real surprises in the list. PanO have a better TAG but no AD, otherwise they feel like Morat PanO, lmao.
     
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  14. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Without Veteran ;P
     
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  15. SockLobster

    SockLobster Well-Known Member

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    All the people being super negative are idiots confirmed
     
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  16. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    "Everyone who disagrees with me in an idiot"

    2/10, made me reply for the poor bait
     
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  17. Freki

    Freki Well-Known Member

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    I think you left out any kind of argumentation in your reasoning to claim people are "confirmed idiots"
     
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  18. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
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    this is really bad, I can see only 2 thing I would take in vanilla:

    KARHU MULTI Rifle, E/Marat, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    VARG (Forward Observer) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25)


    Karhu with mine and direct template can clear fireteam and varg HRL with albedo because we don't have much with albedo
    both are BS 13 and kinda cheap
    everything else is trash or not new:
    nisses are good, we all know nisses
    KoJ is just a "new must buy the mini" FK

    the biggest insults are:
    boyg same profil than KoJ but bigger with no good active weapon with full auto !!! (well the mk12 is better spitfire without SWC) boyg shouldn't exist (B2 ML only in active turn YOLO game design)
    and orco ... they get climb+ but not on the HMG and feuerbach, orco have been trolled since the beginning of this game, I like the minis since day one and I have NEVER been able to play them in a competitive setting, and the trolling continue ...

    the characters are not playable like always except quinn ... who is the cheapest link filler (I would never take him in varuna)
    this sectorial is full of fragile units with very low defensive stuff (well for PanO)

    but the worst part we're loosing acon and NCA for this ! Two functional sectorial ><
    the good thing is now we're going to have to play MO ^^

    even for a jotum list, vanilla is better than svar xD, but jotum are useless in N3 because of crit fishing so I guess we have to wait N4

    finally someone can explain to me why all YJ good stuff(holoYOLO) comes in AVA2 in vanilla and all PanO stuff (zulu) comes in AVA1 in vanilla ???
    YJ vanilla just got AVA2 autoinclude holo KHD/jammer
     
    #18 Sangarn, Mar 27, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
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  19. Guardian

    Guardian Well-Known Member
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    I just hope that the translation from N3->N4 for discontinued will work out better than this N4->N3 translation... :D
     
  20. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    I was going to take a wait and see on the new Pano faction, might be fun or it might suck.