And that's unfortunately why KHDs were invented. Zhencha will be one of few targets where Trinity really shines.
Oh comon, every NWI has this problem (one could say Deva even more due to lack of marker), lets not start the discussion about 2W HI hackers vs Maestro through friendly repeater from Marker state.....
It's less of a dig at Zhencha and more of a dig against AHDs, to be honest. The Zhencha described is just investing significantly more than average. Even with Shock/Bioimmunity, the Zhencha AHD is distinctly at a disadvantage due to the prolific killer hackers. It's to the point where I barely even need to bring the mandatory Ninja KHD, people around here just assumes there's one in the list and I seldom have any problems advancing HI due to lack of AHDs.
I agree about the KHD. I think it was a mistake making it 0 SWC. .5 and cheaper would have been fine. But also yes the AHD is very lacking in anything that can hurt another hacker. I always have to go with Carbonite because at least it gets a +3.
KHDs are already extremely cheap. But nevermind, that's for another thread. AHDs have basically three hacks: Oblivion, Carbonite, Total Control Don't underestimate the value of Oblivion to punish flunked rolls ;)
@Mahtamori, No I mean, keep them as cheap as they are but .5 swc. I meant comparatively to other hacking devices.
The only reason I don't take BSG guilang often is because they aren't specialists. I will probably give the zhencha BSG a go, alhtough he is a touch pricey to fit in as easily.
I agree on not using it in button missions but I used him in Frontline. I learned to loved Guilang BSG due to Haqq Halqa's with their rifle+lt shotgun! already halfway up the board with shotguns!
FO/BSG is a nice combo to have too, means they're not entirely toothless at range! I feel like the Guilang is a better toolbox: same Camo/Infiltration, but with MSV1 and only -1BS the Guilang can tackle Camo stuff better (effectively +2BS vs any Camo/ODD stuff compared to the Zhencha), and Mines also help in that fight; but the Zhencha is a bit tougher (+2 ARM and NWI if not facing Shock) and Climbing Plus to help with getting at what they want to, which is particularly important for objectives/Classifieds, so that's something over the Guilang.
Yeah the guilang is still good, but that climbing plus will let the Zhencha hunt out those units like to hide on roofs.
At least he is cool, even with his tactical hospital robe. I would probably like him if he either had Shock Inmunity or more profiles (especially KHD)
I find it ironic that in the Infinity universe it is better to have primitive technology or no technology at all than developed technology. Makes me wonder how the laws of evolution work there, I'm sure Interruptor has a clear idea of it. Also makes me wonder how the fuck Yu Jing and PanO got to the top... I suppose they established their dominance with really big sticks (with a nail on them if possible)
Well, you do get fun quotes like this: ** the internet-of-internets between different star nations, even nominal enemies.
Theorycrafted, but now I'm actually admitting Zhencha could do something cool. We'll be fielding Z around infiltrator/skirmisher zone normally, so I'll start from here. Zhencha got CAMO! for various usage. Climbing plus for Z-axis movements. BS for close quarter battle. OR. SMG for close shooting/suckonthisyoudogged/makeshift AP shots. D.E.P for the one shot glory. FO for button smash or occasional teamplay. FP for that Jotum. Assault Hacking Device. I'd like to pick its weakness first; Shock will make our 30pts fatty gone for good. This is bitter, but still we'll need to swallow it - after all, we got the unit. I want to make it count for real. Shock ammo's common sources in Skirmisher lines are; you know it. Mines, MULTI weapons or SMGs. 1) Mines Falls to 'Shock Ammo' categories, but still very important for SK-line units. After some experience, you know you can dig up a mine or predict that buggers around. So I'll assume you guys are good enough to prepare a sensor bot, or at least mine fodders like Shaolin. 1-1) Evade Simple is this; Mines cannot move. We won't run our scout's face into that. Whether active or reactive, C+ does give a lot of chances for dodging the universal doom of Zhencha. Look for other routes - Zhencha's C+ would help a lot here. 1-2) Deny Experiences players don't use mines for a trap - they use this to force -3 dodge against anything, and sadly, this tactic will work fantastic on Zhencha when he's cornered. A situation which we really, really want to evade. Reactive turn strategy, I can tell If I face a Zhencha, I would love to place a mine beside him for this reason. He's big, and can show Zuyong-level toughness aside from Shock ammo, which makes him a desirable target to place a mine in its vicinity. Since mines cannot be placed within ZoC of markers aside from performing an Intuitive attack, It would be strongly recommended to use an order to re-camo your Zhencha. I know, it soaks orders, but he's freaking 30 pts! Better when you can have some altitude advantage thanks to C+, or you can just cling on a wall/prone somewhere good while in Camo. In this way, only a real devoted ones will try to mine-blow you. Zhencha can climb up to 8' with a single order - and many skirmishers don't have a C+ with mines, you know what I mean. This guy can outmaneuver around traditional mine spots. 2) Shocks Direct-hit SHOCK weapons, shock CCWs. Mainly these are delivered from MULTI weapons, but now we got a new (OP) weapon, SMG, pretty much often. So I assume these two weapons are our main problems around. Especially MULTI Rifle, since MSR tends to lack LoF at the midfield lines. Good news is, there's close to None, MULTI Rifle around SK line. And guess what, one rare Skirmisher who wields a Multi rifle's actually Yu Jing's pinnacle HI. Other SK units does offer MSR, but we already talked about this. Problem is the SMG. This weapon's getting more and more common, and I feel Ironic when we actually have to mention this while talking about SMG unit ourselves! List of Threat, which means ones who can actually reach Zhencha in their active turns/or Zhencha will face often, is; Dart, personally I think she's the bane of most skirmishers. Ryuken-9 ODD+SMG. Streloks. Spets. Posthumans Mk.5 Same Zhencha(lolwut) Since each two of them show their face on ALEPH/Ariadna, take care. As you can see, other factions seems to lack cheap Shock weapons, and direct shooting needs a discover/sensor before shooting. Good thing is this; we got our own SMGs to deal with, or BS to get that +6, the universal-troll ARO Flash Pulse. Even if you lose, you still got minimum 50% chance of saving your ass per hit, 65% chance if you got your good old cover. Your hands might tremble upon saving, though. After taking a shot, and if you're not feeling lucky or gutsy, by all means get away from that line of fire. Zhencha will be gaining the altitude advantage most of the time - ok, screw that Dart - and rooftop hiding HI does ruin one's day and order expenditures good enough. And you're not rolling him alone for sure. Attacking Zhencha's attacking prowess is what I cannot easily give away. Exposing an open cover by simply clinging into the wall, delivering a surprise DEP into one's back head, literal 1.999 W means it can chew out some threatening DTWs and outplay some Heavy Pistols around. This goes into one's playing hands, TBH, cause even after C+ clearing, it does offer some unique, unexpected lines in my experience - which Skirmishers really don't like, and this is what Zhencha should aim for most of the time. One side note, hacking, I personally think it can't offer some threat when Zhencha's in Camo State. It needs more set-up, and even if it succeeds, its often non-lethal; worst is being Oblivion'd, but it is unstable for an active turn attack. It's a single dice anyway. Besides, you'll be getting a lot of Engineers to repair your Isolation in IA.. So re-camo is your friend. And don't overextend when enemy's still ready for you - scrape open the gaps, and work together with other units. This guy will harass your opponent for quite a fun.
These games are small scale skirmishes. They operate under this strange rules of engagement where not only all of the forces arrive to do something at the same exact time and place, they are playing with the same amount of some abstract resource called points. Even aliens fall under this strange structure. Unshackled from the games aspects, you bet Yu Jing and Pan O are more likely to deploy their troops more rapidly and in greater quantities than their lesser HS rivals. They certainly wouldn't feel restricted to carrying only one MSR for every three of their opponent's SR. Not to mention their troops only rarely have to worry about true death. Good work. It's also worth mentioning shock marksmanship rifles are becoming a thing. And SMGs have also begun to find favor in AD troops and the ever loved Krakot. Also when attacking a skirmisher with mines, especially on an objective, staying out of their LOF is super important. Otherwise they may spike the objective by ARO minelaying.
Good point. I felt SMMR's pretty rare, at least for now that's why I thought such will happen occasionally. Yes I won't like being hit by a Kempeitai or Ayyar. About ADs, it seems they often comes from table sides. I see Airborne rangers, Bashi Bazouks for instance. They often try to pry open the DZ, rather than waging much into minefields. Thus I don't think them as a practical threat. Krakots, BTW, will be choosing hard - these guys are random skill units. If they grab a super-jump, they're definitely a threat. But since their Impetuous skill, that guy didn't last for like 2 turns. TImmune and Dogged Krakot's more fierce, though. Objective bowling tips are awesome, thanks.
@ObviousGray Another thing that IA will have that helps Zencha with the mine threat is Lu Duan. Those holo echoes come in handy alot in vanilla when i need to clear mine fields for my ninjas and Guiliangs. But generally. All those points are spot on. Things i'd been thinking of for that unit. But i couldn't be bothered fighting the forum on it so i kept my mouth shut. The way I see the Zencha is as a "heavy skirmisher". NOT a "skirmishing heavy". Once i look at it like a heavily armoured skirmisher. I merely asked myself how i dealt with all those issues that some people were complaining about made it bad.... or not efficient. Or something. Either way. You deal with the Zencha's problems the same way you would deal with any skirmisher's problem in those instances. Once that perspective is reached. You just have to factor in the hacking vulnerability. Which is why i prefer that it has full camo and not the limited camo that some people wishlisted for.
We have the same situation in real life. Look at the fighting in the middle east between the superpowers, USA and Soviet Union vs "backward" nations. And yet said advanced nations still dominate the world.
Please don't go there. The whole topic is so convoluted and easy to both misinterpret and react to that it's best left out of a discussion about toy soldiers.
