The SMG is basically N3's HMG (circa 2nd Edition). A weapon that does too much for too little (though instead of being a must-have for high-end assault pieces, this one makes anything it touches an efficient order). And just like the HMG from 2nd Edition, the defense force wont admit it is broken until CB themselves nerf the bloody thing (probably in N4). Same thing also happened with Camo in 2nd Edition for that matter. Try talking to the 2nd Edition era defense force about how non-interactive and degenerative camo spam was in 2nd Edition and you just got shouted down with "it's not your list it's you!" and other favourite mantras. But the second CB nerfed it for N3? They were visionaries, of course camo had been underpriced all along and this was obviously the best direction the game could take. It's a shame that CB swapped forum software so often, because it means all that old ass-kissing isn't around to reference easily when the cycle begins anew.
I'm trying to decide whether you're posting in the wrong thread or you don't understand that Zencha hate mines more than Tigers, twice as much in fact.
I liked how camo worked in N2. It was relatively realistic (it gave you a Normal Roll for your surprise shots, and IF someone survived they got to shoot back as a normal roll). But you are absolutely correct that mass camo was an epic pain in the ass in N2. The N3 changes made for much better gameplay, at the expense of some realism.
Do you really have problems with SMGs? I have to say, I dont see them that often. But I use them more often since I went to Aleph, because I needed a break from ISS. Imagine a Zhencha in Cover, Sup Fire. Smoke, Assisted Fire, Rui Shi. GGWP. If you ask me, the Rui Shi belongs in the category of very underpriced units in the game. I really want to try the Zhencha in Vanilla, because its another midfield option besides Guilang, Daofei, Ninja, Kanren. And I dont really care for IA.
I totally get the frustration and I even wasn't interested in the Invincible Army at all. The Zhencha compared with Dart is just inferior in every way and her showing up in two Pan-O sectorials is just ridiculous. If they wanted they simply could have added her to the IA too, since Aleph should work with both powers anyways. The profile of the Zhencha itself reminds me of the Prowler just as the Zulu Cobra does, which is just the a super optimised version of that dated profile. And the real frustrating thing is that CB shows they can make those interesting profiles, but completely fall flat with others. It just seems completely arbitrary, lazy and clueless to me.
Now imagine a Zero (or any other camo infiltrator with mines) moving up to the Zhencha and placing a mine while staying out of LoF... The Zhencha sucks.
That's a more order intensive way of doing it. If the Zero from my example has an AHD the situation for the Zhencha gets even worse. And it gets worse if the Zhencha is the AHD version and there is a KHDin the mid field with mines. I don't play Yu Jing, but I wanted to play IA. These previews are not getting me hyped. The exact opposite of hype is what I feel. I look at the Zhencha and all I see is a pile of flaming garbage.
I choose you, not wasting a bare minimum of 2 orders trying to gamble removing a mine. Not that that matters because either the mine or the Zencha won't be there by the time it's your turn, because that Bandit's next order is to peek around the corner and start taking shots at the Zencha standing in front of the mine. Fun fact, the mine alone is a 25% for the Zencha to die outright if it dodges when the Bandit peeks, this doesn't include whatever firepower the Bandit throws into the mix too. The other fun thing the Bandit could do is forgo shooting entirely after placing the mine, and walk around the corner avoiding blocking the trigger zone entirely and waltz into combat with the Zencha. Because remember kids, Yu Jing don't do close combat anymore despite paying points for "upgrades" and that Bandit is gonna kick the shit out of the Zencha in CC. I love paying points for CC 15. Feels very very good. The best deal in history, folks. Why have CC21, Martial Arts2, and a DA CCW when you can pay for CC 15 and a knife. That's efficiency right there folks, the best trade deal you've ever seen.
I agree on your point in general, that's how'd I'd deal with it. Just that the Bandit is not likely to be packing mines. The most common are the LS/ADHL packing FO and KHD. Budget Black Panther's friends on the other hand...
Overall, you have to look at the zhencha's whole kit and the sectorial he's in. Unlike most skirmisher he isn't the first line of defense, simply because there is no need for one: the whole backline is made of HI, they can perfectly take care of their own. Besides, he is expensive, the only skirmisher available and don't even have minelayer, so even by taking max AVA of them you wouldn't be able to properly road block the ennemy, there would be too many hole in the wall. Finally, with the added shock weakness, he can't attack the ennemy positions on it's own since he won't be able to get past the minefield. All things considered, it appears the zhencha should just hide his ass on a rooftop (eventually strategically placed to help protect the DZ, no one likes a DEP in the back), wait for the main force to do a bit of clean-up (i feel like the mowang will be perfect for this), and only then climb down from his hideout to kill stuff, score objectives and help secure recently acquired positions. At least that's the plan i think, it kinda makes sense when you look at his kit. Of course, it's not perfect. Everything starts from the assumption that you don't really need skirmisher, mines or warbands to endure an ennemy alpha strike on your DZ. I believe this is the reason why we have AVA 2 Chayi and AVA 3 Husong, on top of linked ML/HRL, Yan-huo and whatever new toys awaits us. It appears that ARO from the DZ will be essential to do well with IA.
Why nobody is taking about Zhencha in terms of an upgrade from a for example very know and good unit: NAGA ? Yes Zhencha is more expensive, but on the other hand it knows it can follow up and still act after eating a crit, and won't immieditly die at the end of turn as NAGA. Not to mention SMG is a great SF gun, counters hard other "premium" SK (those with Dogged/NWI), has a good chance putting dent in TAGs/HI, and for this occasional ARO shot or coordinated order you have a DEP. Yes, minelayer is missing, but as other said "IA DZ will be probably good defence itself".
And that Bandit could be ARO'd by a Shang Ji in a link with an HRL if it decides to get close. I can make up scenarios too. This game has always fallen under the idea that there's more than one way to skin a cat. If you're just going to counter every scenario, by that logic I should never play the game.
As much people like (and value) Mono mines I hadn't yet faced them. Seems at least during missions I've played people valued more either straight Minelayer or KHD/FO. And if we speak about Dasyu, then you know ARM/BTS is a very expensive stat to have ;/ (like it or not, and yes I know this because of MO (Crusader being stellar example of it)).
BTS is dirt cheap. Cheapest stat per point after CC. ARM is expensive, though, but as far as I can tell, they don't really start ramping up until 4+. Mono-mines is one of those terrifying things that makes you glad they're not on one of the more useful profiles - not on minelayer, not on specialist and not on SWC weapon profiles. Edit: also lol@Naga AHD not having mines.
They're so expensive no-one would take them anyway. Try for a bigger lol: Dasyu KHD doesn't have mines either (Naga KHD does) :D
