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What to expect from Zhencha?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Greysturm, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Actually DEPs are only good at 8-16"
     
  2. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    My bad! Thought they were 16-24!
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Purely statistically, the D.E.P is for shooting stuff that don't Face to Face, for ARO, or for when there is a significant difference in to hit probability (which is typically only at 32" or more). The D.E.P. will not offer a great increase in probability to score multiple wounds that it's necessarily worth spending it otherwise.
     
  4. banthafodder

    banthafodder Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, like when you move-move 24" away and Achilles v2 says "Na-ah."
     
  5. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    I concur with @Mahtamori

    Taking advantage of the camo state and C+ skill of the Zhencha, you can position yourself to shoot someone in the back with the DEP without risking a FtF roll. That is nasty.
     
  6. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Very pretty game table!

    And decent game to you.


    16", but that still means you can work up the side of the table and shoot someone coming up the center in the back.

    Means you need to be sneakier, like using a Tiger Sniper.


    This.

    That's the only way I've ever seen a DEP (spoken 'derp') effective. It's also "how infantry kill tanks 101": don't shoot it in the face, shoot it in the side or the butt when it's not looking!
     
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  7. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    Now we know DEP SMG guy is something to use about.

    I'm now watching the BS Zhencha; I see something there, combined with his stealthy mobility, could this shotgun man be our solution against Haris overflow meta? Duos and Haris proved their weakness against BS, and catching an open cover is not that hard for C+ unit.

    Yeah, it is expensive, but BS 18 surprise shotgun on your ass? That sounds awesome.
     
  8. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    It's also to slow down HI and TAGs who can usually just ignore random combi shoot if they are in hurry towards the objective.
     
  9. Kallas

    Kallas Vincible

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    With Panggulings having a Wildcard option, it might be possible to have some linked close Baggage support for the Zhencha too, meaning they could more freely expend their DEP as a deterrent.
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Which would be as an ARO, like I wrote ;)
     
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  11. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    I've actually tried the BSG profile, but as much as I'd like to find it useful it feels like it doesn't cut it in comparison to the SMG guy. He's just that much better.
     
  12. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    The DEPs a good Coordinated Order weapon too. If everyone's Burst 1 anyway, and all it takes is one hit to force 3 saves, that can be a good use of a Command Token against a tough target.
     
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  13. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    I was thinking exactly that. Your 4 Zhenchas, pointing their guns at the enemy TAG from some rooftops and corners, adding the Surprise Shot into the mix...

    I'm dreaming about that scenario now, dammit @barakiel !
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  14. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    Or you don't land a miserable wound
    Or you run out of orders before dealing that last wound to a 4+3 ARM TAG
    Or you're being hacked unposed due to the DEP shoot not being silent
    Or maybe you eat the tag's HMG explosive round at BS 8-11 +more enemy AROs,
    Or you successfully take the tag unconscious and on the next turn an engineer takes it back
    ...

    Deciding to discover is a measured risk that is taken by seen the above picture. Halting enemy movements and make them take a detour is how you must act on reactive.
     
  15. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty clear you don't have a proper grasp on the fundamentals of risk vs reward from this list of responses, especially when you try to argue about multiple AROs. If you have multiple AROs you discover with the other guys and delay with the TAG to protect it.

    You could crit every single roll in a game, but you don't go into a game with this plan or mindset. You protect your vital pieces, you don't risk them doing stupid shit.
     
  16. SpectralOwl

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    Just went trawling through the wiki, turns out the Targeted state buffs Hacking attacks too for some reason. Perhaps the Zhencha Forward Observers are the key to hacking parity in IA? A KHD or AHD hitting on 16s sounds fantastic, and the Zhencha is a great platform for actually using the Forward Observe skill due to marker state, mobility, advanced deployment and durability all at the same time. Definitely trying this out with a Guided Missile bot and a selection of Hackers next game I get, though I suspect the Guilang FO will still be better in this role as it is in all things.
     
  17. zapp

    zapp Well-Known Member

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    Guided Missiles are a trap. If you can target something with your FO, why not shoot it directly? The FO bot with SatLock is another story as it can de-camo units while targeting.
     
  18. SpectralOwl

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    I tend to use the GML bots as a cheap ARO when my lists are short on long range templates. They're surprisingly good when buffed in the reactive turn, and since I use a lot of Infiltrating Camo FOs I can get a template wherever I need one to exploit closely grouped enemies, which is usually more efficient then trying to shoot with close-range Skirmisher guns in bad range against multiple foes in cover. They're certainly not something that gets used every game, but I never actually regret taking them.

    This is especially pertinent to the Zhencha, as outside 16 inches it doesn't really have anything effective at taking out entrenched foes, and its Climbing Plus lets it ascend sniper towers to get good long-range angles on prone-on-a-rooftop foes and the like. Could save an awful lot of movement orders in a faction that often doesn't have many to spare.
     
    #318 SpectralOwl, Nov 20, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Because for some units it's actually fairly good chances compared to their normal weapons. Take the Zhencha (no surprise shots):

    Active Player
    23.06% Custom Unit inflicts 1 or more wounds on Szalamandra Squadron (2 STR)
    2.55% Custom Unit inflicts 2 or more wounds on Szalamandra Squadron (1 STR)
    0.11% Custom Unit inflicts 3 or more wounds on Szalamandra Squadron (Unconscious)

    Failures
    48.19% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    28.75% Szalamandra Squadron inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)

    Active Player
    43.39% Custom Unit targets Szalamandra Squadron for 1 Turn

    Failures
    29.63% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    26.98% Szalamandra Squadron inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)

    And then:

    Active Player
    60.06% Son-bae Yáokòng inflicts 1 or more wounds on Szalamandra Squadron (2 STR)
    20.81% Son-bae Yáokòng inflicts 2 or more wounds on Szalamandra Squadron (1 STR)

    Failures
    26.44% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    13.50% Szalamandra Squadron Dodges Son-bae Yáokòng
     
  20. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Well Auxilia can't do much with his BS11 and Combi against a TAG.

    But actually using his WIP12 to try to SPOT it (at the same time putting nice HFT template due to courtesy of Auxbot) is a valid tactic, once the enemy TAG/HI/etc. is "Targeted" your local friendly Swiss or Bulleteer shoot it even better (well Swiss or Aquila can technicly roll 4 dices on 21s....)
     
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