Here's a thought. The only thing stopping an Imetron from being a regular every day Trooper who generates orders is the AI Beacon equipment. So once that Imetron becomes damaged, the AI Beacon ceases to function. Meaning the Imetron is now a regular everyday trooper again. Whatever Automatic Special Skills and Automatic Equipment the piece of scenery had have no effect while it is Damaged. From here, can I not repair the Imetron Trooper and then enjoy it's Order generation on it's profile? I don't know what happens to the Damaged AI Beacon equipment, but who cares? Edit: Effects While in this state, whatever functionality the Scenery Item had has no effect. Whatever Automatic Special Skills and Automatic Equipment the piece of scenery had have no effect while it is Damaged. A Scenery Building in the Damaged state is considered to be Difficult Terrain. I just noticed not one effect applies to an Imetron. An Imetron under the Damaged state still generates an order. @Hecaton For this state to do anything to equipment we must assume those terms are interchangeable.
Haha that should be easy. Just forum search "Hecaton" and every little issue should be right there. Honestly the guy is.... abrasive and prone to overreaction, but as a game developer his posts are gold.
Mostly, it gets really difficult to show, using rules, that a Damaged Koala or a Damaged Mine doesn't trigger or Boost. That's a false equivalent. The two have nothing to do with each other.
They have everything to do with each other. The game functions in very bizarre ways if we do not interchange them. Without interchanging those terms, the Effects of the Damaged state only apply to Scenery items and not Equipment. So an Imetron that loses it's last point of STR still generates an order because the AI Beacon equipment still functions.
You're not in a position to make "trades" of issues like you attempted to do. Whether or not ARM/BTS are interchangeable is an entirely separate debate and has nothing to do with the Damaged state's functionality.
I didn't say it had anything to do with the Damaged states functionality. Look at the 3 effects for Damaged. The first only applies to a Scenery Item, the second to a piece of scenery, and the third to a Scenery Building. Without interchanging those terms, the Damage state is pointless on deployable equipment like an Imetron. The same way some attacks only cause wounds after a failed ARM roll. If a skill allows the trooper to roll against their BTS instead, a failed BTS roll doesn't cause a wound according to the attack. So we interchange them rather than sticking with RAW. Allowing one to be interchanged and not the other is hypocritical.
Please don't quote me on that issue, and please don't crusade on it, either, you haven't won a debate if you scare the other participants away. I'm well aware of what the effects of Damaged state say, which is why I directed Hecaton towards them.
Folks seem to forget that point, as well as forgetting that if there's too much dross to get to the "gold" mentioned, then it's useless...
You challenged my statement and I defended it. If you're well aware of that issue, why did you challenge it?
Let's hope the Infinity rules themselves don't get to that point. There's already plenty of "the minis are pretty but the rules are just too complicated" sentiment online.
No, I challenged that your false equivalency and you missed what I wrote to Hecaton in the same post.
Yeah... at some point constantly pointing out errors that takes years to fix adequately just loses meaning and we just need to get on with our games. I don't personally mind the iffiness with the rules (it's fun to point out and giggle every now and then), what I'm mostly concerned about is the problem in finding rules.
Making sure things can be accessed is a concern, and you're spot on. Sometimes you just have to get on with it rather than overstating what you consider to be a point.
Uff, these rules need to be cleaned up badly. It's like if rules were rules lawyering itself in some points... By the way, are Scenery and deployable equipment the same thing? Because if not, then RAW a damaged AI beacon would generate orders (I know RAI don't, the torches and forks aren't necessary)
I've shown it not to be false. All you've done is claim that it is false without providing any evidence to support yourself. What did you say to Hec that has any relevance? It shows you know about Damaged's effects but it does not stop me drawing the comparison I was making. To illustrate that comparison I drew attention to both.
Gah! You haven't shown anything! You've proven no relation between the two issues which makes it textbook strawman. As in the literal definition of it. Except the strawman part of the arguments tend to be easier to agree on. Seriously, do you ever make concessions that you're mistaken or wrong?
I have admitted I was wrong in these very forums. Although I'm not going to waste my time providing you examples as it's not relevant here. Are you positive you're not mistaken here? I've shown a very real relationship between them. You started off by saying only, "That's a false equivalent. The two have nothing to do with each other." or... Spoiler: Mahtamori Then I explained the relationship in greater detail because it didn't appear to me that you understood. Now you resort to calling my argument textbook strawman, followed by ad hominem attacks. Remind me again what evidence you've actually provided in support of your opinion? Try explaining why it's ok to count a failed ARM roll as a failed BTS roll. But it's not ok to count a Damaged Imetron as a Damaged Scenery item.
