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What to do if a FAQ ruling is clearly wrong?

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Hecaton, Jul 8, 2019.

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  1. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    While i fully agree with the polite objection part... the reasoning is directly in the answer of the FAQ. That's kinda @Hecaton s point unless i misunderstand him.
     
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  2. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    While I understand the assumption the issue is AI beacons as with all employable equipment are not considered troops and are immune to many effects and cannot be used to weasel out of secret objectives, it has some good and some not so good parts, but as a FAQ it needs to state that equipment works this way.
     
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  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It does mean if it is right, it's right in a "broken clock is right twice a day" way.

    Except different TOs interpret the rules differently, because the rules and FAQ are anti-intuitive in many places.

    If the section for Engineer specifically said that you can't remove states from Equipment, I'd be with you, but as it stands it looks like an editing/proofreading/version artifact.

    I mean it was literally stated in the FAQ ruling.

    And it's a problem, because the trooper/equipment demarcation seems to be arbitrary, and interpreted in a way that's very confusing for a player trying to learn the game (or even one who's quite experienced).
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'm just here waiting for Hecaton to read Damaged (states) effects a bit more carefully...
     
  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Oh, I read it before this. If it was intended to prevent the use of the Engineer skill to remove Damaged (or indeed any state) from Equipment, it does so in the most obtuse and wrongheaded way and I think it's more likely an error. Let's keep in mind that rulings on how specific terminology under States is have been anything but consistent.
     
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  6. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Ok, but what if we got an official FAQ that says the intention is that engineers can't repair equipment?
     
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  7. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    My experience with most rule issues is first you point it out nicly, but sometimes the issue won't be recognized or or is such a low priority to functional never be addressed. When this happens. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
    To encourage a faster fix I am not above abusing a rule to bring more attention to it.

    This rules issue has a clear answer, so above the curve for CB
    =p I'm kidding.
     
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    That would be much better than what we have.
     
  9. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    So, @Hecaton, what are AI Beacons in your opinion?
    - Troopers
    - Equipment
    - Scenary Items​
    And which of those can an Engineer repair in your opinion?
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Look, we already know why the Damaged state can't be cancelled by Engineer because the AI Beacon is equipment. That's cancellation. Have you read its Effects?
     
  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Let's just get the whole page from the Wiki in here:

    Again:
    Effects
     
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  12. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    That can work, but if someone goes to that well too early, too often and over too little, they run the risk of becoming background noise, automatically filtered out.
     
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  13. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    I hope they record all of these minor issues. It's understandable they won't rush to FAQ everything to keep the FAQ slim, but I really hope all these minor issues that are pointed here in the forums are noted, archived and revised when the next rules iteration come. There is a ton of good feedback here, not taking advantage of it would be a waste imo.
     
  14. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    An Imetron...
    1. Has a special skill stating it is not a Trooper but instead Deployable Equipment.
    2. Has AD Combat Jump which is a skill only usable by Troopers.
    3. Can use an Entire Order skill, which is unusable during the Deployment Phase, when it can't ever declare an Order itself.
    4. Has different Dispersion rules just because.
    5. Is affected by an EVO's AD bonus under the rules. However a FAQ states it does not get that bonus for unknown reasons.
    6. Can be repaired by an Engineer under the rules. However a FAQ states it can not be repaired for reasons that make no sense.
    Infinity's rules at their finest.
     
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  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Engineers have ways to interact with all three, and an AI beacon is treated as a Trooper or Deployable Equipment seemingly at whim.
     
  16. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    And what rule makes you think that an Engineer can repair deployed equipment?
    I would like that change,
    but to me it seems the engineer can only repair troops (and their equipment) and scenary items.

    I cannot find any clarification in the skill what can be targeted with it (besides scenary items),
    but the FAQ make me think that equipment on the table (like repeaters or crazy koalas) cannot be repaired.
     
    #36 daszul, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  17. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    I might be missing something, but as I see it:
    1.
    ENGINEER SHORT SKILL
    REQUIREMENTS
    • The user must be in base to base contact with his target.
    EFFECTS
    • By declaring Engineer the user may make a Normal WIP Roll to repair the target and have it regain 1 Structure point. The user may declare uses of this Special Skill until the target has recovered its full STR.
    • Alternatively, by passing a Normal WIP Roll, the user may cancel all of the target's states susceptible of being repaired by an Engineer (Burnt, Disabled, Immobilized, Isolated...).
    2.
    AI BEACON AUTOMATIC EQUIPMENT
    EFFECTS
    3.
    Terminology
    This rules set features a collection of terms which refer to very specific game elements that help to clarify the extent of the rules.
    • Deployable piece of equipment. Game element with a Troop Profile, which belongs to the Army List of any of the players, and is able to perform some type of Special Skill or Trait. This element may also be designated as a target and receive Attacks.
    4.
    Damaged
    Cancellation

    • A trooper with the Special Skill Engineer (or an equivalent Skill) may cancel the Damaged state by spending one Short Skill of an Order while in base contact with the affected Scenery Item and passing a Normal WIPRoll (or the Roll specified by the Special Skill or Scenario that caused the state). If the Damaged state is canceled, the Element regains 1 point of its STR Attribute.
    Edited for completeness.
     
    #37 Ginrei, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yup. But that's exactly my point - mentions of Scenery in the rules entry for Damaged should probably say "Scenery or Equipment" otherwise the whole thing goes tits up.
     
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  19. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. If people are going to hold fast that scenery items and equipment are not interchangeable, then BTS and ARM rolls are not interchangeable.
     
  20. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    I forgot one. An Imetron...

    7. Can enter a game state even though Troopers are only allowed to enter game states.

    It looks like the term Trooper is interchangeable with other terms as well. This game is so complicated.
     
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