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What if Jammer's Isolation was persistant only in Jammer's ZoC

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by eciu, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Well, the important thing is that if there's a dude with a Jammer on an inaccessible roof, he can attack people on the ground but people on the ground can't attack him without spec fire.

    Apparently Assault Hackers were so bad they necessitated Killer Hackers, but Jammers are worse - it works on anything and you can't kill a Jammer bearer with a hacking program. Jammers need to be affected by Blackout so you can push back against them. Or they need a killer hacker device but for Jammers, but that's a ridiculous amount of complexity to add.
     
  2. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    A single hacking program that may target jammers would be an acceptable addition to the game. Otherwise y’all are basically complaining for no reason. Just get over it and play with your fun little toys.
     
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  3. SpectralOwl

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    We can't! They keep getting Isolated!
     
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  4. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Sounds like a performance issue... :stuck_out_tongue:
     
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  5. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    That is actually a great idea. If they made Jammers into Comms Equipment, they could be subjected to Blackout.
     
  6. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    There's a pretty good idea embedded in a garbage post. A supportware that when activated the target is immune to isolated, it's kinda cool and fluffy. Call it "signal boost" or something and let it target anyone. A step in the right direction, but I'd still rather A) making isolation resetable or B) killing jammers.
     
  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Nah, Jammers are a problem. They have no risk.
     
  8. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Also if a technology effective enough to be used on barely-trained ghazi is so safe and effective to use, everyone should be using them.
     
  9. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    It's not exactly safe though. Quoting the jammer's flavour text:

    So it takes a special kind of crazy to use this weapon in actual combat. And yes, before you ask, all the units using jammers at the moment ARE crazy. Even zulu cobra are described as "more than a little unhinged".


    As for jammer balance, I'll just repeat what I said higher in this thread: make the isolated state last 2 players turns, like "gotcha" or "basilisk" hacking programm.
    The biggest issue I have with isolation is how definitive it is considering it's an attack occuring from out of LoF. At the moment, if one of your dude is isolated he is pretty much out of the game, the only thing he can do is ARO. If he's been isolated in a bad spot your opponent won't even need to deal with him, since he is no longer a threat. But just being able to stop him dead in its tracks, knocking him out of his fireteam if he had one, without further orders to spend to get back to safety or enter suppressive fire is already very strong. It's the perfect tool to set-up kills for the active turn, or gain some time if your opponent has a unit you really don't want to see rampaging across the board, it doesn't need to last the whole game to get the job done.
     
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  10. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    In practice it's very safe to use, just sunbathe on a rooftop and frazzle anything that comes by.
     
  11. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    No. Jammers are fine. Sunbathing that much can cause cancer, not to mention the likelihood of spec-fired weapons turning you to paste.
     
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  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Depending on metas, you can also just walk into a room and sit there. One of Stockholm's satellite metas play with doors and windows being opaque unless you're standing next to it and keeping them open, guess what performance profile Muttas get with that door handling...
     
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  13. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    As soon as anyone starts to spec fire on my ghazi i count that as my win.
     
    #73 CabalTrainee, Jul 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
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  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    That likelihood is next to zero in plenty of matchups. Spec fire without targeting first is extremely unreliable and usually a waste of orders; if you wave to waste orders doing that to a Ghazi the Ghazi-owning player is already at an advantage.

    But you knew that, obviously, so why are you generally playing the clever dick?
     
  15. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Really jammers on other troops seem absolutely fine. Ghazi are just extremely efficient at what they do.
     
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  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Jammers on other troops are a problem as well, particularly since you don't need to keep regular order batteries to keep them from running to their deaths and they start at ideal locations, but they're expensive enough that more hinges on their performance.
     
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  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Nah, non-impetuous Jammer bearers can sit on a building with no access to the roof and threaten an objective, with no possibility of recourse.

    Make them comms equipment.
     
  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That might work... Not sure about that, or ISO1/ISO2, where ISO1 is resettable and ISO2 is Engineer-to-fix, just like IMM1/IMM2.
     
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  19. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Make em disappear
     
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  20. Cry of the Wind

    Cry of the Wind Well-Known Member

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    Having not faced them very often but reading these posts to me seems like a lot of good options to make jammers better. Comms equipment to allow them to be disabled and being able to reset out of them seem like a great start. The problem is mostly with Ghazi 5pts models with high Av and tons of options but I can see people complaining about them when I start using Hecklers in hard to reach but critical locations. As a mostly Ariadna player I've found many things in the game almost breaking (ODD or TO in spots I can't mine or flame) but have learned to live with them even if they make my game experience poor.