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What if Jammer's Isolation was persistant only in Jammer's ZoC

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by eciu, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. SpectralOwl

    SpectralOwl White-Faced Invincible

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    Quickest fix I can think of is "Declaring a BS attack with the Jammer places the user in the Targeted state at the end of the Order." You've set off a giant E/M flare on your exact location in the middle of a warzone full of electrical equipment and sensors, it's probable the enemy can track that better than their inconceivably awful Forward Observer equipment. Doing it that way would reduce the odds of one cheap trade piece holding up an entire offensive one by one without making Jammers useless, though it would make them a massive liability while linked (intentionally). It'd also be more incentive to bring along Smart Missile Launchers and non-linked normal LGLs too, not to mention being easy to keep track of.
     
  2. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this plus ISO1/ISO2, and Jammers make you ISO1?
     
  3. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    Make the Jammer Disposable (2). Those massive bursts can't be sustainable.
     
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  4. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Did I mentioned anywhere jammer in FT ?
     
  5. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    No, but the sub-thread you replied to was specifically about Spec-Ops with Jammers.
     
  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Deleting Jammers would be even easier.
     
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  7. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Not exactly as the person whom I respond to apparently didnt care to write about those highly classified methods ;) (nor did he mentioned SpecOps in any way or form I could understand)
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    By the same token, the Jammer also provides more than just warding against the enemy spec ops. A lot more than Veteran does, I think.
     
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  9. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Daboarder was replying to someone talking about Spec Ops getting Sixth Sense from being a Fireteam, thereby nullifying Stealth.
     
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  10. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Not as unsustainable as you'd think.

    Sticking with that 1000W monstrosity I've been talking about, you'd be correct. 12v power supply would need to cough up 84 amps, when your car's battery can only supply 45 amp-hours, roughly feeding that drone-smoker for about 30 minutes of continuous operation before killing the battery.

    But a jammer doesn't need anywhere near that much power. Maybe 50W? Even your cell-phone battery can feed that for a bit of time. Actaully, let's compare directly to a cell phone. Cell Phones transmit at 3W at full power, and have around 10 hours talk time (I'm running with stats from an LG Harmony), the battery powering the cell phone can handle 10+ straight hours of transmitting. If you kicked that up to 30W transmitter power, you would cut battery life to 1/10, so about an hour of constant-on jamming, with your cellphone's battery.



    Nonetheless, I would want Jammers nerfed a bit, making them Disposable (3) would probably be about right.
     
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  11. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Isolate-1 still basically ends your turn. The state wouldn't be any different I reckon. Just you can reset out of Iso-1. Although, thinking about that now, its a pretty tough to only get 1 shot at resetting, so might be worth having something to allow additional expenditure to reduce that risk - like command token re-roll or something?
     
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  12. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    @eciu : I was just answering about your answer to daboarder. He was told that PanO and Haqq will field jammer in FT at Interplanetario and so Stealth would be useless. I can understand that daboarder doesn't want to give hints to his future opponents before the tournament is over. But still, Vet L1 on your Spec Ops when you want him to be actively doing something is the skill you need. Pretty useful for Hunting party anyway.
     
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    If he's got two wounds or whatever. He's just going to get chain rifled by the Ghazi in that case.
     
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    To cause a permanent effect on the equipment after the Jammer is turned off and to do so across a very wide array of frequencies?
    Jammer as a Nullifier-like device is very believable, mind you, but the Jammer we have is frying circuits.
     
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  15. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Only relevant for HB in this case. Because VIRD, RTF and QK don't have access to Mutts. So, you're narrowing a lot the problem. And if the Mutts stay at jammer range of the spec ops, then the threat is localised and you can take what is outside of this bunker. And Mutts hate spec fire and hyperdynamic/NWI veterans. Will Interplanetario be a good meta for Yadu?
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'd take 9 BTS for 5 XP over Veteran for 4 XP (on spec ops with 3 starting BTS) or Engineer for 4 XP over Veteran for 4 XP any day of the week... or the Shock Marksmanrifle.
    The likelihood of having your spec ops face off against the enemy spec ops is diminutive compared to the potential value that the Engineer skill can mean to your force while both BTS and Engineer provides sufficient protection against it in the event tthat it happens. Meanwhile the extra benefits of Veteran isn't worth 4 XP. Veteran absolutely is a skill that more units should have and at 1 pts it is very reasonably priced, but 4 XP is highway robbery and not a solution to anything except for very rare edge cases where the basic spec ops is so good that it can be used as a melee brawler, meaning... Deva and... that might be it.
     
  17. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    True but in this exact situation the SpecOp with link team might not have stealth so while link can sneak upon Jammer the poor specOp guy will have to reset constantly or eat jammer.
     
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Just get 2 XP for Martial Arts?

    There are soooo many better options in any given Spec Op list than the overpriced Veteran skill. It gives an answer to essentially one single thing, but there are a lot of skills that give answer to the same thing and while it provides a stronger benefit elsewhere that is often cheaper than 4XP.
     
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  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Which is par for the course for @daboarder 's advice.
     
  20. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    Use Stealth they said, while Bob the trooper was trying to push a button or shoot someones's face...

    Use Stealth they said, while insisting TAGs and non Frenzy HI don't have a bit of a problem in the thread next door.

    Outmaneuver the Ghazi they said, while everyone already knew that was possible but simply didn't quite agree that spending 3 Orders to eat a free Chainrifle was quite the best of ideas.

    It's not that hard to figure out a way around a Jammer, but the sheer amount of Orders required to pull it off on average is not on par with the 1 point price tag while unlike Mines or Nullifiers being passively active on default.
    Imagine troops with Mines being able to ARO with exploding instead of deploying them. Exiting, right?