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What exactly is the FAQ relating to Hack Transport Aircraft supposed to mean?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Hecaton, Oct 26, 2018.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Even the FAQ is not explicit. It just says that the effects of the program are not applied... which is fine, but it says nothing explicitly about ties, and we know from the core rules that if there's a tie neither skill's effects are applied.
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    What we've got is an ambiguously written rule, a botched FAQ, and if they intended for HTA to lose on ties, they *still* failed to write the FAQ to that effect.
     
  3. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    No, it's not. As repeated by the FAQ, it's saying that the Hacker's Roll gets ignored, and doesn't stop the Combat Jump Roll from being a success.

    You're really reaching here.
     
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  4. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    Dude, we know how the standard FtF resolution works.

    Look, here's that thread from 2015 where I'm arguing this exact reading.

    http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/...bat-jump-and-hack-aircraft-what-to-do/?page=1

     
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  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Saying that Hack Transport Aircraft has no effect does not suggest that it loses ties, because it already has no effects on a tie - but neither would AD itself. I ain't reaching, whoever wrote the FAQ was, and they still failed to grasp it, if that was their intent.
     
  6. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    You're reaching, because you're trying to say that something that is explicitly stated to have no effect will still have its intended effect.

    If they wanted the FAQ to say that it dispersed on a tie, they would have just said that instead.
     
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  7. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    I give up.
     
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  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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  9. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    You're missing something. I never said this thread contained any official statements from CB employees.
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The issue is that stating that it has no effect on a tie is the "as normal" resolution - if you look at the rules for ties it says "no effects are applied" (referring to the two skills in question). So the FAQ fails at clarifying what it claims to clarify.
     
  11. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    If ties mattered, it would have an effect, because then the AD would disperse, since it would not be a success.
     
  12. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    That's not what effect means in the context of a tie. Check the basic FtF rules again.
     
  14. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    If it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure literally everyone else understands how this works based on your quite concise explanation.
     
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  15. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Basic FtF rules requires the AD trooper to effect the hacker.

    Its a face to face where the hacker is trying to succeed only.

    Dodging mines when FtF shooting works the same way. You can tie the FtF, cancel the shot and dodge the mine. You didn't succeed according to the face to face, but you passed your implicit normal roll for dodging the mine which is irrelevant to the face to face.
     
  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    There are exceptions - see: Dodge.

    I mean, it's also a face to face roll, so the basic rules apply.

    You don't get to move, though, which is what happens when you succeed on a dodge. What happens when succeeding on an AD roll is you land where you wanted to.
     
  17. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Yes, dodge is an exception. much like AD combat jump is. In fact, reading the basic rules, dodge is essentially the opposite of hack combat aircraft.

    In a Face to Face Roll, success in the Common Skills Dodge and Reset does not affect the ability of the attacker to execute their action, only their ability to affect the dodging/resetting troop. For example, dodging an Attack with several targets only cancels the attack against the troop who dodged, and does not cancel the attack against the rest of the targets.

    HTA doesn't affect the trooper's combat drop, it only causes them to disperse when you succeed.
     
  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It cancels all the dice which are face to face with it. Dice shot at other targets don't matter.
     
  19. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    The resolution you suggest, "tie mean we make a dispersion roll" means the hack transport effect is applied => same thing as hacker winning FtF. It take the exact same stance (just on the opposite side) as what CB did in its rulling.

    Standard resolution in case of a tie is "nothing happen". So if you want a standard resolution for hack transport vs AD, in case of a tie the jump is cancelled and the order is lost. Is that what you want ?
     
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  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    No. Standard resolution is neither of the rolls' success effects happen.