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What Do We Want In Code One?

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Del S, Apr 1, 2020.

  1. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    that "soup" thing can be powerful... or not. That would deppend on which troops are there. For example, what we know about black hand, triple zeros (we only have bran atm.) spectrs, kusanagi and a few other troopers. It might lack cheap fireteam options and have only access to some more limited ones. TJC is not performing in the "infowar" sectorial as was told by B years ago, I see no problem in having a inteligence sectorial with another kind of approach

    about stagnation is what I get from some of the comments here. Seems to me that some people don't want new things, no new rules and are mainly against our good points in the lore to be toned up. We all want the bad points to be fixed, but also some new toys, specially when all other factions are, little by little, getting new options to play. More options mean more ways to play, and more fun.

    I agree that we don't need new sectorials for new units. But now CB is not bringing new units to sectorials, but instead bringring new sectorials directly. Nomad sectorials have been neglected to some point in the dessign phases, so why should we spect for CB to bring new units to them if before those sectorials ended underworked? I know you don't think that way, and also that in this case, we should be asking then for finish that work. And I think everybody here has asked for it! but we disagree on "what need to be fixed", and some comments here are in the "nothing needs to be fixed, everything is ok" way.

    Yes, BJC was "fresh" when taskmaster was released...it was in mid renovation, but was left unfinished. BJC and TJC are the only sectorials in the entire game (if I am not mistaken) with n1 miniatures in catalog (Zero combi and spectr hacker) and the most cuantity of n2 miniatures (custodians, prowlers, riot spitfire, lizzard, sin eater, UFK, kasandra and bran, and that is without putting in remotes), and some of its units use the n2 formula (religious troop is a reduction point skill in n3, but was a pay-for-it skill in n2, and still is on it).

    also I agree that we need the models missing, and we ask for them, CB just needs to spend as work on nomads as they do on other factions. TJC got as many new releases in 2 years than varuna in 1, and is the only sectorial in all the N3 that needed to wait 2 years to get its lore in a book. The most wanted profile (The new feuerbach securitate) needed 3 years for it to appear. Our spec op is the ugliest of them all, and I am pretty sure is the worst seller of the original spec ops, yet there are factions that got 3 different ones. And while most of our miniatures are ones of the best in the game, we also have some of the most dissapointing for some people, me included (mary and raoul). If CB were to put as releases on nomads as to others, then there would be space not only for all those missing profiles (grenzer box for example) but also for new units without affecting the release dates much.

    while CJC got better, I cannot agree is fine. Wildcats need a review, they could have one when CJC was checked, but we only got fireteams review. No new profiles inside troopers as most of the other sectorials got, no troops review, no fireteam review for wildcats, no SWC tax checked. We got a new profile from defiance that will just displace a previous one, that's true and is something not much other sectorials can say. But if the other sectorials that are performing the same (or even better) get access to some of the new rules, get new fireteams, some unit revised and fireteams revised, but CJC only get new fireteams options, I see an underwork there.

    About TJC, is not hate. Really, I have lots of fun with it, and is the one I play the most. But having fun has nothing to do to be able to see it is underworked. Its release was rushed (maybe to fill on schedule). It works right in LI format, but it has a lot of flaws (we have debated them in other threads, I think it is unnecesary to bring them also here) and contradictions, with its rush to be in the army that make me think is underworked too.
     
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  2. Modock

    Modock Well-Known Member

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    Not wanting new things and saying Nomads are fine is just wrong. I'm not in favor of a new sectorial but we definitely could use some new profiles especially Tunguska. Nomads need updates and cleaning up.
     
    #242 Modock, May 27, 2020
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
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  3. Darkinga

    Darkinga Nómada Nómada

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    Well TJC need 2 things: 1st Hollow Doctor (why not? Ejem betatrooper) 2nd Fireteam review or make the troops count as to wildcard.

    EXTRA: Another engineer troop.

    BJC need totally review in troop costs, swc cost, maybe a new troop to gain game options...

    CJC just same to Armihaul say, review on Wildcats is totally needed, and Geckos weapon opntions... for me is the only point to work on it.
     
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't think Nomads are stagnant either. Outside of TJC our 3 other sectorials (including Vanilla) have a lot of viable archetypes, there's whole swathes of lists I haven't tried often yet.

    I think also think Nomads are heavily exposed to the systemic shifts coming in N4, so just those systemic changes will reintroduce a lot of variety to Nomads.

    That's why I don't really think we need a lot of effort expended on new sexy things, when instead for less effort we could see things we already love, but don't play with because they just don't quite hit the mark polished to be exciting to play.
     
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  5. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    To escape from the tonic of "we need a rework of the three main ships", and taking into account the time jump forward, how important story is to CB, I would love to see more "mini sectorials" like StarCo. After all, we Nomads are known for guerrilla, small groups and being all over the place in our trade missions (similar to Haqq). We do not own a planet we can name a sectorial on, but we own ships!

    What about "Strike Force Late Vermilion" (just throwing up a name here). A strike vessel tasked with defense of far away trade outposts and commercial missions (as per the lore). Lead by this hard, strict Coronel (ex-Intruder, he is also a Black Hand spy), he cannot stand Jaguars (disagreeing with the Mexican guy how put them to work), and prides in exemplary execution of field tactics and escort missions.

    Based on the Corregidor Sectorial:
    - Jaguars AVA 0, Bandit AVA2 but they become Regular/Frenzy (the Coronel does not field irregulars),
    - No McM, no Lupe, replace with something else. Instead of McM, give me a Modified Land-Escort mission Gecko with BSG and Smoke Dispensers.
    - AVA 1 Infiltrating Intruder (remember the lore about this guys blending in?), Intruder FTO (no heavy weapons).

    The "Hard Shield Detachment" of the Observancy can be similarly put in place by twiching Bakunin into an Anti-ALEPH hacking force.

    IDK, I feel we have good sectorials, but the above would be like fielding lore-relevant detachments with its own perks. It helps story-telling, it can add flavour by changing a few pieces (like how StarCo and ForCo works), and it´s very Nomad-y.
     
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  6. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    A lot of units need to be reworked to the point that they're nearly new. We don't need that many totally new units. I don't like the idea of constant progress especially if it means retiring things, or even de facto retiring things by leaving them as unused. For Corregidor, as long as Wildcats, Brigada, and Iguana have such low usability I don't want to see anything other than refinement.
     
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  7. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Same goes for Moiras, Healers, Prowlers, any Grenzer that isn't the sniper, Sin Eaters (Though SE's issues are more related to state of the game more than anything), and Carlota (ditching the SWC on the Tomcats while we're at it).
     
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  8. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Sin Eaters are actually pretty OK. As you say it's a state of the game thing. But even late stage N3, played smart you can get an awful lot of value out of them.

    Crit changes, an ARM reprice (both of which appear to have occurred in C1) and Paramedic changes all benefits them.

    In terms of potential changes that are still to come: nerfing Shock does a lot for them. As does leaving them 4-2 but applying an appropriate discount.

    So I don't have an issue with where Sin Eaters are at. Only the MSR profile is objectively bad (although adding FD1 to the Spitfire and Mk 12 profiles would be an interesting update).

    They're also a profile that could gain from Free Agent. They have a natural home in the second order group and being able to move them at will offers a lot of flexibility.
     
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  9. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    I pretty much only take the MK12, FD1 on the profile has made it great for holding flanks, or baiting warbands for a fairly cheap investment. Though the only time it hasn't felt like a waste of points and left me wondering why I didn't take a second moran or heckler has been against other vanilla factions or older sectorials, or if Im lucky enough to play on a more dense table.

    While the crit, arm, paramedic and cover changes will benefit them greatly going forward, their biggest issue is the wildcard mechanic. Though if they get included in C1 they will at least have a home there if N4 stays on the wildcard bandwagon.
     
  10. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I still get a lot of work done with the Spitfire and HMG. A 1/5 chance of winning any ARO forces you opponents to play coy with them.

    Deployed conservatively forcing opponents to move to engage them works well. Spitfire in particular overlooking the mid-table ARO covering things like a Taigha rush works wonders. It drags their big hitters forward and often forces them to spend several orders fighting them as the first or second Short Skill bounces off ineffectively. This then drags them into range of your 0 SWC attack options such as Uberfalls, CRAP Morlocks, SK or REMs.

    You're right though in that they suffer on open tables where they get trivially ranged: if anything they need mid density tables, so I can see that's going to be a meta thing.

    And yes, the fact that they compete with Shock Immune SSL2 AROs fuel by 4 cheap(er) orders that also offer an active option does limit their utility unless you're committed to player BJC (I usually use them there not Vanilla where I'll use a TR Bot).

    Honestly I wouldn't be surprised or opposed to TR and Neuro being combined. Although that would mean Helots would need looking at, but even that is probably manageable.
     
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  11. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    If NC became TR then things really would become interesting. None of the helots carry overly egregious weapons if that happened, just slap them with some bloat so the cost what they should and it'll be fine, they aren't exactly difficult to deal with.

    EDIT: though you'd most likely see more bitching about the boyg ML in comparison with it's yan huo counterpart, or the other way around, who knows with those faction communities.
     
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  12. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    A TR ML YH being better than a FA ML Boyg is entirely appropriate. The Boyg's problem, right now, is that it lacks something that gives it a real purpose: I think it's missing Ltd Camo or HD, neither of which appear in Code One but either of which make it interesting and distinct from both the Swiss and YH.

    I have no issues with a TR ML YH.

    I'm not entirely certain how TR is costed relative to Neuro but if you assume that it's a wash with any armour discount for the Sin-Eater but a roughly ~2pt net increase on a Helot then that's probably quite reasonable.
     
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  13. Darkinga

    Darkinga Nómada Nómada

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    Mini sectorials like BlackHand (Nomads/hassassins) or Observancy ( Just A lot of moiras, custodes, healers, and why not a new tipe of crazy exhalted religious troops...)
    Starco is nice for me.. i love it. Foreign...dont touch my heart...but... thinking on BH like Dasaht but Nomads with fidays... oh men... this is totally Love... alotadamage for all.xD PanO, YJ,Alehp, and EC crying like rat childs....
     
  14. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    The last thing this game needs is another sectorial that's remotely like Dasyat.
     
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  15. Darkinga

    Darkinga Nómada Nómada

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    Is your opinion.
     
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