I presume you are referring to Neoterra Bolts as overpriced MI. (The Black Friar is awesome!) Indeed they are not cheap, but many veteran player claim they get this unit to work fairly well. In case you find Fusiliers more effective, feel free to avoid Bolts! Bolts get a lot of fairly expensive (some players would say overpriced) skills that are not easy (or situational) to put to work. Not sure, which unit you referred to as unlinkable LI as signature unit of the sectorial. I presume this will be the Auxilia and the Deva. The Auxilia is more than fairly priced (15 points for a mobile FO troopers rocking a bot with heavy flamethrower is more than reasonable); Devas are not exactly cheap but they bring a lot of utility to the table (Sensor Lt, MSV2 Spitfire, Devabot profile for area denial). I honestly do not see what is the problem with the Hexa. This is a signature PanO profile. You get what you need to get sh/t done. Nom ore no less. You pay an adequate price for this. No more, no less. TO camo is top technology on its own right. I agree paying 24 points for the Combi Rifle profile is not the best investment (to say the least) but the KHD and MULTI Sniper profile both worth their weight in gold and will not break the bank points costwise. I think the design methodology is 'Keep it streamlined!' By not giving extra skills to the Hexa, CB kept the pricetag low. I do not see what the problem is with this. (Actually this is the flipside of the too-expensive-Bolts argument...) In case you think Hexas are too inexpensive or too low-tech, feel free to compare them to the (in)famous Foxtrot FO: I look at the Hexa as the more expensive, higher technology version of the Foxtrot. (Both profiles are just awesome and I consider them the epitomyies of streamlined profiles.) And yes, NCA is just fine! Just concentrate on the strenghts of the sectorial instead of pointing out a few subpar (?) profile! Cheers!
Hard to compare Hexa with Foxtrot, given that the latter is a cheap infiltrator. It's true that the unit is fine, though. NCA as a whole is fine, yes. It's also true, that there always will be some problems. We all would like to see them fixed, even if simply for the sake of internal balance. It feels bad to have a unit that is could be used to create some different lists than the usual solutions, but is simply too subpar to use it without handicapping yourself. The trouble with Bolts is that they're trying to do two things at once, and one of those tasks - solid backline defence - Fusiliers can do almost as well for half the price. If Bolts were more streamlined for midfield operations, they'd be awesome. That, and getting their point cost fixed. ITSX rules help them a lot with FDL1. On the whole NCA is ok, though it could use some more interesting stuff and combinations, just as other sectorials are getting. But given that the rest of PanO forces is getting a pretty massive overhaul - and we're about to get more goodies with VIRD - I don't think complaining that all our stuff isn't updated is reasonable. It's a given, that at some point, mayeb next year, it'll get its tweaks. For now there are sectorials and factions out there that need updating much more urgently, than NCA.
You'd think people would learn to ignore that one poster a long time ago... NCA doesn't need much fixing. Bolts could use a Haris or a price drop (or possibly mixed links, since they're all the rage apparently), Aquila would be great with CoC and/or HMG Lt (he's supposed to be a senior officer dammit). Maybe Dart. That's it. What NCA needs is a not-stupid starter pack and resculpts/missing sculpts for a few units. Bolt BSG, Hexa Combi/Hacker, not butt-ugly Auxilia, Swiss Hacker, Locust BSG...
While bashing Kan is all the rage (again), amongst his saltiness are some quite valid points. Bolts overpay for the LSG by 2 points compared with newer profiles sporting that weapon, and overpay for Drop Bears by 2 points compared with newer profiles sporting that weapon. Despite being the most prolific model in the entire infinity range (9 different figures) the one profile that is missing is the one that is arguably the most useful, BSG + E/M grenades (and the bolt paramedic in Beyond Icestorm was a real slap in the face for PanO players, we actually would have welcomed a Bagh Mari paramedic). FD1 making them useful just highlights how overcosted the base profile is, when viewed as player perception. Anyone can make a poorly optimised unit work, but feeling like you're purposely handicapping yourself by selecting a model is not condusive to an enjoyable game experience (unless you actually want that challenge you masochist!). The Auxilia was promoted as the basic light infantry of NCA prior to the sectorial's release, but instead of an Auxilia fireteam or expansion of Auxilia profiles we got Fusiliers. On top of that, Auxilia are overcosted, every profile. For the exact same points as an Auxilia (10 points base) you can get a Fusilier (also 10 points base), with exactly the same weapons and stats, except fusiliers are BS 12 (looks like one troop profile rounds up, the other down). That's not to say they're bad, they're overcosted similar to Bolts, but Auxilia have the advantage of the Auxbot being so good that it completely negates the overcosting (compare the Auxbot to the Devabot, same stats and cost, one is S1 and so easier to manoeuvre and hide in the kind of dense terrain its HFT favours). As for the Hexa, I've not seen or read anyone complaining about it, and aside from the CR profile being completely redundant, every other profile has great use in a variety of (if not every) NCA lists. Now, what I'd like to see is an expansion of Auxbots and Auxbot profiles across a lot more troop types. I'd like to see Orc mixed Haris with Bolts. CoC, Stratego 1, Advanced Command or similar rolled out onto Aquila (and a Lt HMG profile!). The gift of the best AHD in the game was glorious and has changed my entire list design for NCA, while I don't expect Bolts to get that level of upgrade, something to make taking them exciting rather than excruciating.
Stop taking the ML and the MSR, run the FD1 Spitfire, with Drop bears and EM toting BS/hacker profiles. Get your range in the Hexa MSRs and the TR HMGs that do that job better than even the fusiliers do and you will get much more millage out of the bolts.
But I completely agree! That's exactly the issue, half of the unit works just fine, but the heavy weapon choices don't mesh well with this tactic. What I'd like to see is ML getting replaced by - for example - LRL or Feuerbach, MSR getting replaced by Multi MR. Still a good punch, better range bands for the task.
sure, but I think thats really more than we can hope for, the MSR and the ML offer the options to those that particularly want to use them (6 bolt links isnt a completely terrible idea and may work in some lists) and options, even if they arent optimal so long as they have a niche, are a good thing. if you are only missing out on a handful of profiles as optimal choice you are doing pretty good
Yes, I don't think this is a realistic wish. I still hope there will be some changes, but I'm not holding my breath. And we've been discussing desired changes ad nauseam, anyway ;)
Just think how our perceptions would have altered if the three bolts in the NCA starter all came with BSG instead... Of if the Drop Bear profile was in place of E/M grenades for 21 points... I think CB were just married to the idea than all PanO MI had to have the CR+LSG when they made Bolts and have been largely too embarrassed/busy/disinterested to change them ('cus honestly, wil anyone, ever, use the Nisse CR+LSG?).
To begin with: I was not bashing Kanluwen. I was strictly questioning the arguments he made: nothing personal. For the record: Kanluwen did complain about the Hexa (or I misinterpreted him), hence my reaction. Regarding your remarks on the Auxilia I do not understand your comparison. Every single profile (just checked) comes with an Auxbot. There is no 10-points Auxilia without Auxbot. As you said the combination of this two parts of the trooper makes this unit a more than desirable choice - where is the problem? Indeed if there were a 10-points Auxilia without Auxbot, that would be a subpar trooper relative to the Fusiliers. (Given that Fusiliers are AVA 5 I still see some utility in taking fairly cheap cheerleaders.) But there is no such profile. Cheers!
We know the Auxbot costs 4 points, it's both in the profile itself and easily deduced from other troops that come with one, Order Sergeants: Combi = 13, Combi+Aux = 17, HRL = 15, HRL+Aux = 19 etc.(if you fancy pulling apart the Guarda profile, its Auxbot is the listed 6 points cost too, as are Devabots(4) and the Charibdis(7) and Kydoimios(6)), so the Auxilia cost of 10 points isn't really up for debate. Those 10 points are spent on the stats and equipment and buy less than 10 points spent on Fusiliers' stats and equipment. CB have repeatedly indicated both that there is a points formula they use to create troop profiles and that they don't hand adjust to get to a specific cost, so if 10 points spent on Auxilia gets BS11 while 10 points spent on Fusiliers get BS12 with no other differences, there is either an error or singnificant enough rounding somewhere to account for the difference.
I do kind of feel bad for dog piling Kan, even if he does say some questionable things. Regardless, I think Aleph in NCA is effective storytelling in gameplay, more than anything. It's interesting how Aleph would help PanO perform black-ops to help "further" humanity. I also find it interesting how it would go so far as to fight itself to possibly trick YJ or PanO. I think it fits on a gameplay level and thematic level.
IIRC Combi + LSG used to be a lot more popular (Hellcats had it and Securitate too) and even more useless (as Shotguns had +3/8" range). They're slow to roll them back.
I like the Swiss and Black Friar in NCA thematically, the Swiss Guard being the mercenary soldiers of the Vatican translates nicely to the setting, as does the Space Inquisition being involved in black ops in the Space Pope's back yard. As for Aleph, I have a feeling the Deva is meant more as a liaison between the military and the corporations, acting as the go-between or overarching authority holding the force together (and honestly, if CB wanted to add another "corporate" unit, something big from a R&D lab for NCA only, I wouldn't object). Despite the Nomad propaganda, Aleph really doesn't embody the tyranical feminine archetype/trope that usually goes hand-in-hand with evil AI overlord stories ("mother knows best, do what she says, she'll make sure you're safe and nothing will ever happen to you"), she comes across as more enlightened and intelligent enough to realise that chaos is necessary for advancement, where tight control will result in the entropic end of everything.
IMO: I thanks the Aquila guard LT should get Inspiring leadership or advanced command, according to the fluff the Aquila guards go the most prestigious military academy, So! I don't understand why the Aquila guard LT don't have either skill. Also, I would like to see the Orc's link with Fusiliers.
Is it too much to ask for a discussion been polite and not devolving to personal attacks? As for Devas, PanO has been historically quite open to Aleph integration in their command structure, maybe a bit more that it is sensible.
Yeah I always thought NCA was the best expression of what PanO is really about. It's "the most PanO" of the existing sectorials. You combine your tech, your formal military, ties to the Church, sinister gov't agents, Big Sister ALEPH keeping her hand in, corporate interest in the CSUs... It's a really good expression of the different interests that make up PanO's identity.
